Texas Disaster Legal Help Podcast

Disasters and Their Effect on the Family

Texas Disaster Legal Help Project

Listen to our guest speakers from Texas RioGrande Legal Aid discuss the various legal issues that affect a family after a disaster. Also in this Podcast: How to spot Domestic Violence and how to help your client.  

Guest Speakers: Maricarmen Garza Coordinator for the Victim’s Rights Group and Amber VanSchuyver Deputy Coordinator of the Domestic Violence and Family Law Group.

 Visit our website at https://texasdisasterlegalhelp.org/


Music Credit: Track: Travel With Us — Vendredi [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: https://youtu.be/o-rpKzt4KSYFree Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/travel-us



Disaster and Their Effect on the Family

 

 

Speakers:

Maricarmen Garza (Texas RioGrande Legal Aid)

Amber Van Schuyver  (Texas RioGrande Legal Aid)

(Recorded October 29, 2020)

 

0:00

there we go hello folks uh this is Pablo

00:03

  Almaguer the director of the private bar and

00:05

government relations at texas rio grande

00:06

legal aid here with another podcast

00:08

episode in our series that we're doing

00:09

for the texas 

00:11

disaster uh legal help website excuse me

00:14

even that pronunciation is hard for me

00:15

right now i haven't had enough coffee

00:17

uh this morning and i won't say coffee

00:20

once again for stuart's purposes

00:21

he'll tell you what happened later on in

00:23

his place

00:24

but uh we have another great episode

00:26

here a couple of folks talking about

00:27

family law

00:28

issues during the disaster recovery and

00:29

disaster um when the session does hit

00:32

but before we do that let me just go

00:34

ahead and remind you all this this

00:35

project

00:36

is or this podcast is part of a project

00:38

that we list them up at

00:42

texasdisasterlegalhelp.simplejustice.org

00:43

that website has many resources for pro

00:45

bono even the audience also the

00:47

non-lawyers you know about disaster

00:48

assistance but this project itself let

00:50

me tell you what it's about before i go

00:51

into introducing my co-host

00:53

uh we are a coordinator project between

00:55

legal aid of northwest texas lone star

00:56

legal aid

00:57

and texas rio grande legal aid aimed

00:59

at improving access to justice for those

01:00

affected by disasters

01:02

our project allows both disaster

01:04

survivors and pro bono attorneys to

01:05

access critical resources in one place

01:07

while at the same time making it easier

01:09

to connect disaster survivors needing

01:10

legal help and volunteer

01:12

attorneys willing to provide it in this

01:13

way the project team hopes to increase

01:15

the number of disaster survivor clients

01:17

who receive high quality legal

01:18

assistance as they continue to navigate

01:20

the recovery process

01:21

after a disaster and provide the support

01:23

and mentorship for pro bono attorneys

01:26

that what they might need to achieve

01:27

that success so it's a dual purpose here

01:30

and we're going to add to those

01:31

resources here by having a great

01:33

discussion with the two speakers and to

01:34

introduce them are my co-host

01:36

belinda martinez from lone star legal

01:38

aid and stuart campbell from

01:40

legal aid of northwest texas so take it

01:42

away belinda

01:44

thank you pablo today's podcast is all

01:46

about disasters and their effect on

01:48

families

01:49

with us today are maricarmen garza and

01:51

amber van schuyver

01:53

maricarmen started her legal career

01:55

as a staff attorney for catholic

01:57

charities in houston

01:58

representing clients in removal

01:59

proceedings VAWA self petitions

02:02

political asylum cases

02:04

etc she is now the group coordinator for

02:06

the texas rio grande legal aids victims

02:08

rights group

02:09

and the director of trla's legal

02:11

alliance for survivors of abuse or the

02:13

lasa project maricarmen was appointed

02:15

to serve on the aba commission on

02:17

domestic and sexual violence and is a

02:19

member of the public policy committee

02:21

for the texas council on family violence

02:23

and currently serves on the boards of

02:25

the texas council of family violence and

02:27

the texas association against sexual

02:29

assault

02:30

amber is an attorney and the deputy

02:32

group coordinator of the domestic

02:33

violence and family law practice area at

02:35

the texas rio grande legal aid

02:37

she received her bachelor's of arts in

02:39

latin american studies political science

02:41

and spanish from the university of

02:42

kansas

02:43

and her doctorate jurisprudence from the

02:45

university of texas thank you for

02:47

joining us guys

02:50

you for having us

02:53

okay first question very broad question

02:55

but let's go ahead and dive on into the

02:56

subject

02:58

what effect do we see on families when

02:59

disasters occur

03:02

well um belinda obviously

03:05

um everyone's impacted anytime there's a

03:08

disaster

03:09

uh but these um effects uh really

03:13

take a toll on families especially any

03:16

family that may be also experiencing

03:18

family violence

03:19

um as you know people in any disaster

03:23

are often

03:24

faced with the option of sheltering in

03:27

place

03:28

or evacuating their home to go into a

03:30

shelter

03:31

also with their abuser so many uh

03:34

impacts occur uh to a family in general

03:37

um as they navigate you know what to do

03:40

in the aftermath of a

03:41

disaster but for those individuals who

03:44

are also experiencing domestic

03:46

violence the issues just get exacerbated

03:49

um the texas council on family violence

03:52

after harvey hurricane harvey did a

03:54

study

03:55

to to really understand what the impact

03:57

was not only

03:58

to the victims of domestic violence but

04:01

also to the systems who support them

04:03

and that study was really informative

04:05

into

04:06

you know just how everybody gets

04:09

impacted right

04:10

um not only family is going to be

04:13

experiencing

04:14

so many much more turmoil and and

04:17

stressors you know economic and

04:19

otherwise but

04:21

um the systems that are set up to

04:22

support them in case of a domestic

04:25

violence they might go into shelter but

04:26

the shelters might also be

04:28

impacted by the disaster during harvey

04:30

there were several shelters

04:31

that were also um flooded or had other

04:34

issues or their workers themselves

04:36

had to be evacuated and displaced so

04:39

um really understanding and being

04:41

prepared is something that

04:43

the basis of this study is and i believe

04:45

that we're going to be sharing

04:47

um that study with anybody who who wants

04:50

it who's participating because it does

04:52

elevate the areas that are of impact for

04:55

most families but especially for the

04:57

work that we do amber and i

04:59

work on the family law team for texas

05:03

rio grande

05:03

legal aid and we do notice that

05:06

individuals who are also experiencing

05:08

domestic violence

05:09

have a much harder time after

05:12

disaster strikes we have noticed

05:16

that the number of incidents of violence

05:18

continues to escalate

05:20

just highly after any in

05:24

any kind of disaster the numbers that we

05:26

get not only to the shelters that we

05:28

work with but to our caller

05:30

intake lines just also um multiply i

05:33

mean i think

05:34

right after covid we saw like

05:36

immediately like a 30%

05:37

spike of calls that we were receiving

05:40

and not only were we getting more calls

05:42

requesting um assistance for individuals

05:45

who were

05:46

also simultaneously experiencing

05:48

domestic violence but that

05:50

violence was much more severe than

05:52

before

05:54

and just to add to what maricarmen

05:56

was saying right we know

05:57

i mean disasters they cause economic

06:00

instability

06:01

right and they further isolate

06:04

families right from their support

06:06

networks and also from as maricarmen

06:08

mentioned services much needed services

06:10

and

06:11

these effects can be filled felt on

06:13

families across the board

06:15

if there were pre-existing mental health

06:17

condition issues right it might

06:19

exacerbate those

06:20

those issues or cause post-traumatic

06:23

stress

06:23

right but these effects are felt

06:26

particularly hard

06:28

for family suffering abuse

06:34

you're muted belinda

06:38

sorry i set up hot keys so it'd unmute

06:41

me just by pushing a button and they

06:42

never work

06:45

hard keys i think yeah exactly

06:49

okay well that's all going to be cut no

06:50

worries

06:52

but what i was going to ask is

06:55

i know the big disaster going on right

06:56

now is the covid crisis

06:58

what increase in cases like what type of

07:01

cases are you seeing coming in nowadays

07:04

we've seen an increase in all cases

07:07

across the board for the family team

07:10

we've seen a large increase in divorces

07:13

and modifications and also issues with

07:16

custody enforcement

07:17

but we've also seen a very high increase

07:20

in domestic violence right

07:22

and we know we've seen that play out

07:24

right um

07:25

multiple media outlets throughout texas

07:27

have reported on this right we've seen

07:29

um there was a study in dallas county

07:31

that found that there was a 12.5%

07:34

jump in domestic violence incidents in

07:36

that three week period

07:38

after the dallas stay at home orders were

07:40

in place

07:41

san antonio police department reported

07:43

an 18%

07:44

increase in family violence related

07:47

calls

07:48

in harris county they reported um there

07:51

was an increase

07:52

both in domestic violence related calls

07:54

and in the murder rate

07:56

um since covid's been in place domestic

07:58

violence related murderers

08:00

so we know that this situation is is

08:03

affecting families

08:04

and increasing the rate of intimate

08:07

partner violence

08:08

including family violence child abuse

08:11

sexual violence as well

08:14

you know i can ask a couple of questions

08:15

just to make sure again and i do this

08:17

almost every podcast but i want to make

08:18

sure that our speakers know about this

08:19

you know part of the purpose of this is

08:21

that we can place cases with pro bono

08:22

attorneys and you're going to have some

08:24

listeners who have been experienced you

08:25

know family law and they know about

08:26

these issues

08:27

some of them may be starting off and we

08:28

want to ensure assure them we're not

08:30

going to give them this high

08:32

domestic violence highly contested case

08:34

you don't want to place but if

08:35

there is one you provide the resources

08:37

for that but

08:38

i guess a two-part question first of all

08:40

i'm sure we all screen cases but second

08:42

of all if there is dv

08:43

we even provide some resources like

08:45

social workers to help you know uh the

08:46

victims kind of

08:47

uh maneuver you know all the benefits so

08:50

they can communicate just properly with

08:51

their clients and not worry about what's

08:53

going on so it's a two-parter question

08:55

sorry for the compound question

08:57

and i think that's a fantastic question

08:59

if if it is a case that's coming from

09:01

one of our legal aid organizations

09:03

um the clients not only have been

09:05

screened for domestic violence

09:07

but you you said it pablo we do work

09:09

with social workers and we also work

09:11

with

09:12

partner domestic violence agencies so we

09:14

are always trying to make sure that

09:16

they're completely connected to all the

09:18

resources

09:19

that can assist this individual move

09:21

forward in a safe place right we've done

09:23

safety planning we've got

09:25

contacts uh and of course the support to

09:28

keep moving forward

09:29

up for that individual because we know

09:31

that a divorce or a family law case

09:35

typically could be something that

09:36

escalates the violence

09:38

so we're always going to make sure that

09:40

we have

09:41

already done some safety planning with

09:43

our social workers

09:44

and that we have the resources to

09:47

connect them with

09:48

in our community so that they can stay

09:50

safe throughout the dependency of the

09:52

case as well

09:55

so my only connection i don't do family

09:57

law but i do

09:59

i'm in close communication with the

10:01

family law folks at the fort worth

10:02

office here at legal aid in northwest

10:04

texas and

10:05

um from just my anecdotal experience

10:09

that

10:09

they seem to be inundated with cases

10:11

right now and

10:12

i guess i want to get it from your

10:13

perspective you guys service the area

10:15

uh the trla services and so has your

10:18

family law units also taken a or seen an

10:21

increase in these types of cases

10:23

we have the the number of applications

10:26

we've received been receiving has

10:29

has gone up significantly since the

10:31

beginning of the pandemic

10:32

um and some over the summer i think

10:35

several months we

10:35

had almost double what our our number of

10:38

applications were from the prior years

10:40

so we've seen

10:41

a major increase in the number of

10:43

individuals seeking services

10:46

for a variety of reasons right um some

10:49

people

10:49

might just be deciding because of the

10:51

pandemic um

10:53

you know i really need to get to go

10:54

ahead and get that divorce when they've

10:56

been separated for many years and

10:58

those are great cases for our pro bono

11:00

attorneys right to assist with

11:02

um because those are relatively you know

11:04

folks have been separated for quite a

11:06

while those are relatively uncontested

11:07

cases

11:08

um pretty straightforward

11:13pause

i know you mentioned the disaster

11:15

resources are

11:16

restricted as well because the workers

11:18

the buildings that the resources

11:20

of programs are in get affected as well

11:22

uh

11:23

what effect has the remote proceedings

11:26

for those of you out there most know the

11:28

courts are doing zoom hearings and no

11:30

in-person hearings

11:31

does that have effect as far as the flow

11:33

of cases

11:34

and through the family courts most

11:37

definitely i think

11:38

initially there was a delay in all

11:41

hearings so

11:42

you know we had existing clients which

11:45

cases were not moving and then the

11:47

influx of new cases

11:49

made it a problem but then when we're

11:51

talking about individuals who may be

11:54

um you know who are indigent who may not

11:56

have all the resources to

11:58

get on a laptop and maybe the only

12:00

screen they have is a

12:01

it's a smartphone if at that but you

12:04

know reviewing documents together

12:06

getting prepared for court making sure

12:08

they have the wi-fi

12:10

access all those are factors that really

12:12

impact

12:13

our client community and has impacted to

12:16

some extent

12:17

our ability to to move these proceedings

12:19

forward

12:20

that said it's in i'm like very

12:24

impressed of their resiliency and their

12:25

ability to

12:27

still do this work and uh connect

12:30

sometimes our clients are are grateful

12:32

right especially in a domestic violence

12:34

situation

12:35

but they don't have to be in the

12:36

courtroom with their abuser so that's

12:38

one thing that has helped in terms of

12:40

safety

12:41

and feeling more comfortable with the

12:42

process is that they're doing a

12:44

difficult thing but they're not doing it

12:46

in front of the person that really hurt

12:47

them

12:48

and so there is a safety involved in

12:50

that

12:52

so the impact can be felt in different

12:54

areas but i know that

12:56

for the most part the access to

12:59

be able to get on court and be able to

13:02

understand the system if this is not

13:05

something that you

13:06

typically navigate in or you have a

13:08

language access issue

13:10

um those things just get a little bit

13:12

more complicated

13:14

i want to build on that in two two ways

13:16

so like

13:18

again i can only kind of speak from my

13:19

own perspective it's been kind of tricky

13:21

doing

13:22

housing cases via zoom um there's like

13:25

some weird emotional disconnect where

13:27

there's a human element that's missing

13:28

and i want to see are you guys seeing

13:30

that as well

13:31

in in your cases uh and if so can you

13:34

kind of expand upon that

13:36

i definitely think that's an issue it's

13:39

harder i mean especially when you're

13:40

talking about

13:41

very sensitive issues i mean the vast

13:44

majority of our clients right are

13:46

survivors of domestic violence or sexual

13:48

assault and

13:49

and trying to build that rapport

13:51

remotely can be very challenging

13:53

um i you know and and then

13:57

you know the proceedings and and not

13:59

always especially

14:00

right with some of the zoom proceedings

14:02

and the issues with interpretation

14:04

it can be confusing to clients exactly

14:06

what's going on

14:08

right and it does definitely create this

14:10

this disconnect that is making it it's

14:12

adding another

14:14

challenging element to this entire

14:16

process

14:17

it's just you know i i it's not the same

14:20

talking to the client you know over the

14:22

phone or be a zoom as it is having them

14:24

come into the office

14:26

and i think after the hearing when

14:28

you're done you know you're

14:30

off the hearing or you might have

14:32

another hearing and there's not that

14:33

time to console

14:35

or to just encourage you did great or

14:38

you know taking that break in between

14:41

you know

14:42

witnesses or so forth to just you know

14:44

give that encouragement that you need to

14:46

especially in these very difficult type

14:48

of cases i think that that's something

14:50

that is missing and i personally would

14:52

like to go back to

14:53

to in person at proceedings um because

14:57

that

14:57

is terribly missed and i think that um

15:00

it's hard to really check on clients

15:03

after proceeding

15:04

uh when again that means getting on

15:05

another remote call or phone call

15:07

versus just walking them down to their

15:10

car and and talking to them and and

15:12

processing what just happened

15:14

have you noticed any any disconnect

15:17

between

15:19

the the the finder of fact the judge

15:22

and in their ability has it affected the

15:25

judge's ability to kind of see emotion

15:27

whenever the person's not there

15:29

like because i know it's totally

15:31

different it's almost like you're

15:32

watching something on tv for me you know

15:34

um there's this weird

15:37

just disconnect whereas in

15:41

non-covid times being in the room and

15:42

like having to just see the

15:45

the mom crying who might be evicted was

15:47

like

15:48

a lot of times could could change change

15:50

the judges or at least

15:52

make them vulnerable to hear uh the

15:54

person out just a little bit more

15:56

have you noticed anything like that

15:58

especially in these cases that are

16:00

involved such high emotions like i can't

16:02

even imagine what it would be like

16:03

trying to convey to a judge the severity

16:05

of

16:06

an abusive situation uh

16:10

over zoom and not have that person be

16:13

right next to the person so can have you

16:15

experienced that

16:20pause

i can talk from my own personal

16:22

experience is that

16:23

yes there is a little bit of a

16:25

disconnect it is something that you're

16:27

seeing remotely versus

16:28

a live person crying in front of you and

16:31

i think um

16:32

another part of this in addition to the

16:34

fact that you're that

16:35

removed and i just think it's important

16:37

that we talk about it

16:39

is that these proceedings are being you

16:41

know broadcast via youtube

16:43

so here you are talking about something

16:46

super intimate very personal that you're

16:48

embarrassed to even share

16:50

with your best friends and now it's on a

16:52

youtube channel

16:54

who knows who's listening and who is

16:56

able to participate or what they do with

16:58

them

17:00

so that's something new for us that we

17:02

are definitely

17:03

informing clients when we know that the

17:05

client that particular courts do

17:08

zoom live stream uh on to youtube

17:11

you know talking about that issue and of

17:14

course do we need to file a motion to

17:16

restrict the broadcast

17:18

in a protective order case so additional

17:20

factors that may

17:21

impact a client's willingness or a

17:24

victim's ability

17:25

and willingness to fully share because

17:27

they don't know

17:29

who's in the courtroom at least when

17:30

you're in person and it's an open court

17:32

you still know who's in there right and

17:35

this is like

17:36

really not having any control of what

17:37

happens to your story

17:39

who's watching is it an employer is it

17:41

you know another child that maybe goes

17:43

to school with your kids it's uh

17:46

very challenging and i think that adds

17:48

an added factor

17:50

that not only maybe is the court going

17:52

to be remotely seeing or observing

17:54

you know being distant but also that you

17:58

have

17:58

somebody who's maybe monitoring

18:00

themselves as well

18:01

because they don't know where that

18:02

information is going to go so

18:05

it's just an added layer to think about

18:08

i do hear that actually when all this

18:10

started that there was enough

18:11

uptake in mediations and arbitrations i

18:14

guess you know and

18:15

alternative dispute resolution because

18:16

of this exact issue like when you were

18:18

told

18:18

it's one thing to tell somebody you know

18:20

you're going to be live in court saying

18:21

this like you're going to be on youtube

18:22

saying this and they're like okay let me

18:24

go back and work on this which might

18:25

work in our favor some of the pro bono

18:26

council and

18:27

some of the bigger cities have disputed

18:28

resolution centers dros

18:30

uh you know the domestic relations

18:32

offices and that might help you with

18:33

that

18:34

to play the devil's advocate here uh a

18:35

little bit about this the video stuff um

18:38

i have to say that you know about like

18:40

eight or ten years ago i helped amber i

18:42

think it was you remember we did a skype

18:44

hearing for a client

18:45

those of us would practice in the border

18:46

area you know that if our client when

18:48

the

18:48

disaster hits and the people population

18:51

is very mobile and they go

18:52

north of a checkpoint you can't get him

18:54

back you know for testimony

18:56

we got to actually really litigate hard

18:58

to get somebody to skype

18:59

uh the victim you know to skype in from

19:02

that and that was like ten years ago

19:03

that and the judge

19:04

i'm sure now it's a whole different

19:06

perspective which i think is positive

19:07

for our clients for those of you

19:08

speaking of the cases

19:10

your client might move somewhere else

19:11

you can't consult with them but at least

19:13

now the judges are comfortable with the

19:14

technology and maybe

19:15

amber you can probably explain how ten

19:16

years ago it was like a novel thing

19:18

and you know having to carry the tv into

19:20

the courtroom and putting it up

19:22

and now it's standard par for the course

19:25

of course right go ahead

19:28

and i think it's it i mean like you said

19:31

pablo it's a

19:32

great advantage for especially for

19:34

survivors who may have fled

19:36

right because of abuse and now they're

19:38

in a different state

19:39

and maybe there's proceedings going on

19:41

back here in texas right

19:43

they can continue to be part of the

19:44

proceedings right like my maricarmen said

19:46

but not have to actually be

19:48

in the courtroom and for multiple

19:50

reasons i mean especially for

19:52

for our client population that we serve

19:54

right indigent

19:55

i mean traveling back and forth right

19:57

and can be very expensive so i

19:59

definitely think

20:00

i mean there are some things about the

20:01

remote proceedings that i hope

20:03

stay after the pandemic because there are

20:05

definitely some advantages that we've

20:07

seen

20:08

and i mean the advantage for me is i may

20:10

be in houston but i can take cases

20:12

anywhere for the same reason because i

20:14

can participate remotely i do not have

20:16

to take a full day of travel

20:18

or worse so when i know some of our

20:21

offices may be at capacity

20:23

and there's a really you know high

20:25

priority case that came in that

20:27

you know even though i'm so far away

20:29

that i might still be able to

20:30

fully engage and take a case uh remotely

20:34

has allowed not only me but other legal

20:36

aid attorneys to

20:38

take cases in areas far away from where

20:40

they typically practice

20:43

and the great advantage right is if you

20:44

have a if you're a pro bono attorney and

20:46

you want to get

20:48

experience practicing in a different

20:49

area right you have the advantage of you

20:52

can also watch the court's proceedings

20:54

on youtube to get a feel for what it's

20:55

like to practice in that area before you

20:57

actually take on a case there

21:00

which i think is really helpful right

21:02

because most of us wouldn't have time to

21:04

go

21:05

drive you know some to a different

21:07

county to see

21:08

to observe a court hearing right but

21:10

because everything is on youtube

21:12

um for the most part you can observe

21:14

another another

21:15

um court's hearings and see what it's

21:18

like to practice in that area if you're

21:19

interested in taking

21:20

you know taking cases in a different in

21:22

a different area as well

21:24

I’m telling you amber you're gonna take my job

21:25

here if i'm not careful that was very

21:27

good

21:28

i know but that's a great point um one

21:31

thing

21:31

i know my legal aid is worried about

21:33

it's like we want to keep those zoom

21:35

hearing comings we want to keep that as

21:36

an option

21:37

because before covid it was like pulling

21:39

teeth like you said to get them on skype

21:41

or

21:42

even a phone call in and i know with our

21:45

client base and even when i was at the

21:46

attorney general's office in the child

21:48

support division

21:49

you can send your hate mail now

21:53

um for our clients to come in for

21:56

a child support modification or

21:57

enforcement that meant taking a day off

22:00

work that meant

22:01

traveling that and then if it got reset

22:03

or dismissed or there was a service

22:05

issue that meant another day they were

22:06

gonna have to take off which they can't

22:08

afford

22:09

and their jobs may not be so flexible

22:12

with them taking the time off

22:14

so the zoom hearing has been a godsend

22:16

in that case

22:17

and also i know for those legal aid out

22:20

there

22:21

that do reduce fee not free like we do

22:24

they don't have to charge the traveling

22:26

or the mileage so that saves grant money

22:28

that they can use on other cases

22:31

so yeah um pros and cons to the remote

22:33

hearings but

22:34

i know for our client base it's a good

22:36

thing so

22:38

for those of you who don't like it out

22:39

there get use to it please

22:41

it it's it's helpful it really benefits

22:44

a lot more people

22:45

i'm not arguing against everyone i just

22:47

i uh

22:49

yeah i prefer in person i mean it's just

22:52

i mean but i mostly do housing so i

22:54

can't really speak to that well like

22:56

amber maricarman said

22:58

um you kind of do you

23:01

lose a little bit of the human element

23:02

and sometimes especially domestic

23:04

violence victims they're already

23:06

reluctant to tell their story and

23:08

like they said now they're on youtube

23:09

it's not a closed

23:11

courtroom and yeah it just

23:14

i mean it adds it has difficulties and

23:17

it

23:18

has a lot of pros as well yeah i think

23:21

for

23:21

a pro bono perspective it's all probably

23:24

a positive

23:25

um because everything is going to be

23:27

more accessible

23:28

um witnesses that you may not be able to

23:31

get down to the courthouse because they

23:33

can't take you know a full day but

23:35

they'll be able to be on call and just

23:37

you know from wherever they are

23:39

be able to participate i think that

23:41

there's definitely pros and cons and

23:44

and hopefully when covid is no longer

23:47

the issue

23:48

that we get to keep some of the benefits

23:50

of it um now that we know it works

23:53

speaking on the other end of issues and

23:55

talking about some of the problems you

23:56

might face when their disaster does hit

23:58

and the

23:58

population becomes pretty mobile you

24:00

can't find them anywhere as we all know

24:02

anybody who does family law maybe most

24:04

litigation services process notice of

24:06

the lawsuit that's going to be like the

24:08

biggest

24:08

build-up in work initially once you get

24:10

that done then you kind of you know get

24:12

to your what you learn in law school

24:14

but on the practical side of it you all

24:16

have any um

24:18

experiences or tips you know on how to

24:20

maybe be able to serve the respondent of

24:21

the opponent now

24:22

with the possible use of social media i

24:24

think an online posting by the office of

24:27

court administration

24:28

uh you know and substitute the service

24:30

like what's your experience been so that

24:32

Our partners  when they pick up a case

24:33

and the respondent is gone and they have

24:34

to serve them

24:35

what can they do

24:38

well you always have right substitute

24:40

service under

24:41

under 106 right where after attempting

24:44

to serve someone personally

24:46

you can then request the court to have

24:49

them served

24:50

by leaving the citation with anyone over

24:53

the age of 16

24:55

at the residence where they're likely to

24:57

be found

24:58

so that's always an option right you

25:00

have to attempt personal service first

25:02

and um file and you actually have to

25:04

have two affidavits right the affidavit

25:06

that you attempted service and then you

25:08

also have to have the affidavit

25:10

um that they're likely to be found at

25:12

that residence and it's as likely to

25:14

serve them right as regular service

25:16

would

25:16

um but one advantage that we've had and

25:19

i

25:20

i think it's you know this was in the

25:22

works before the pandemic

25:23

right is for individuals that you can't

25:26

find right where you would have to do

25:28

um service by publication right and

25:31

there was a change

25:32

um to the law here over the summer um

25:35

that allows for a citation by

25:37

publication

25:38

um online and it's through the um

25:42

the oca right they have set up a website

25:45

um that you can do publication online

25:47

and it's particularly

25:49

helpful for indigent individuals because

25:51

if you have a statement of inability to

25:53

pay

25:54

on file you can actually do the

25:56

publication online instead of having to

25:58

do posting

25:59

or i'm sorry publication in a newspaper

26:02

so

26:03

um it does it does help with that that

26:05

process

26:08

that's interesting uh i'm sure we have

26:10

the resources and materials you know

26:12

available for our pro bono if they ever

26:13

want to

26:14

ask about those motions i think i'm

26:15

actually going to email you about that

26:16

soon i didn't realize this

26:20

well just for our pro bono attorneys out

26:23

there that

26:25

may take a volunteer case and it ends up

26:28

being a domestic violence and dv case

26:30

what's some good screening techniques

26:32

and if they do find themselves in the

26:34

middle of the case

26:35

what can they do what kind of

26:36

protections can we get out there

26:38

either through the court or through

26:39

other resources

26:43

well there's many different types to

26:46

to screen uh domestic violence and i

26:49

know that we included

26:50

and some of the materials that we wanted

26:52

to share with anybody who views or

26:54

listens to this podcast

26:56

but the most important thing is to to

26:58

listen to what the

27:00

individual is telling you and to believe

27:04

if there is indeed an allegation of

27:06

family violence

27:08

um quite typically family violence

27:10

offenses are the most

27:12

under reported offenses ever so

27:15

just because there is an absence of

27:17

police reports or no criminal cases

27:20

does not mean that there is not a

27:22

domestic violence

27:23

situation occurring um and and so

27:27

to look for those uh other issues

27:30

uh or try to make sure that there's a

27:32

police report to bring it up

27:34

it's not going to be there most of the

27:35

time because it really

27:37

is incredibly underreported and

27:40

sometimes even when they do report

27:42

there may not be a report that is uh

27:44

available

27:46

for a victim to to prove that this

27:47

happened or that they did

27:49

indeed complain about it but one of the

27:52

tools that i think is

27:53

incredibly helpful um is the power and

27:56

control

27:56

tool because sometimes not only are you

27:59

looking at

28:00

um the outward manifestation of this

28:03

imbalance

28:04

when there's domestic violence but there

28:06

might be economic abuse

28:08

there may be the use of children there

28:09

may be the use of

28:11

you know immigration as a tool so it's

28:14

quite often really asking those

28:16

questions

28:17

may give you as an attorney you know a

28:20

really great insight of what that power

28:22

dynamic

28:23

is like um when i typically meet with a

28:26

client that's one of the first things

28:28

that i do as a homework right their

28:29

little thought

28:30

is gonna be here's a power and control

28:32

wheel um

28:33

and and it's a material that's been

28:35

widely published right as

28:37

how uh power dynamic occurs in a

28:40

relationship with there's violence

28:42

they will highlight a lot of the issues

28:44

and then that's my

28:46

screening tool to ask tell me about this

28:48

situation

28:50

tell me about the bank who keeps the

28:51

cards you know can you

28:53

um do you have access to any of the

28:55

financial information and really start

28:57

crafting

28:58

that that um narrative

29:02

right based on what their experience is

29:04

so that we can understand

29:05

what the dynamics are whether violence

29:08

was used

29:09

throughout the marriage or just the one

29:10

time or it's just that impending threat

29:13

of violence um it's really important to

29:15

to understand and then connect them with

29:17

resources that may be able to

29:19

to assist that survivor do more safety

29:22

planning

29:25

right and i think maricarmen brings up

29:26

a really important point right is that

29:28

we have to recognize that not all

29:30

domestic violence situations look the

29:32

same

29:33

right um you have verbal abuse emotional

29:36

abuse right financial abuse is very very

29:39

common and often

29:40

underlooked in these situations and i

29:42

think

29:43

it's so important to for you know

29:45

attorneys to ask these questions very

29:47

very open-ended and non-judgmentally and

29:50

be careful about the language you're

29:52

using right because

29:53

um by asking questions you know in a

29:56

certain well

29:57

why didn't you make a police report

29:58

right you're

30:00

causing you know could possibly be

30:02

causing the victim to

30:03

shut down and not share any more

30:05

information right so we have to really

30:08

think about how you're asking these

30:10

questions and trying to get this

30:11

information in a very

30:13

you know non-judgmental very open ended

30:16

way right because if

30:17

if a survivor is is opening up and

30:20

sharing with you their story that they

30:21

may not have told anyone else right

30:23

it's very important that we not um

30:26

be the ones to you know scare them away

30:29

from talking about it in the future

30:30

right um and make them feel like they're

30:33

being judged

30:34

um you know so it's it's very important

30:36

like maricarman said to

30:38

you know to listen to believe right

30:41

and um to provide safety planning um

30:47

oh sorry i didn't mean to stop but uh

30:49

you know i wanted to say something

30:50

because

30:50

the oldest person here in the room uh

30:53

and somebody you know i did a good

30:54

amount of uh family law violence

30:56

cases um and i remember that i was

30:59

surprised i changed my interview style

31:01

when i read about battered spouse syndrome

31:03

i whenever i read about ptsd you know

31:06

and the dsm4

31:07

how it wasn't even in the dsm-4 uh where

31:10

the manual is for diagnosis

31:12

for even like the ptsd was there for

31:14

like you know vietnam veterans when they

31:15

returned back from the vietnam war and

31:17

then eventually you know

31:18

now i think it's been added the battered

31:20

spouse syndrome and how

31:21

you just said if you don't you're not

31:23

careful what you're saying to the person

31:25

you're not listening

31:26

they will shut down and that would

31:27

frustrate not only the attorney but

31:29

even the court sometimes and you have to

31:31

kind of educate the court why isn't the

31:33

client remembering things because you're

31:34

having to put them into the situation

31:36

that put them in

31:37

so you have a disaster you have violence

31:39

going on imagine all that's carrying

31:40

upon them

31:41

uh so i think it's a very important

31:43

point and again i want to refer back to

31:45

our social workers and our resources how

31:47

they can help you communicate with your

31:49

client and then having the client be

31:50

a better communicator to the court too

31:52

because it's going to matter

31:54

and and i think you know really

31:56

identifying all the different areas

31:58

where a victim may be

31:59

impacted right it may not just be the

32:02

the family bonds which is really

32:03

important to address

32:04

but the financial the economic um as

32:07

you're working

32:08

through any kind of case with somebody

32:11

who's a survivor of violence you need to

32:12

be

32:13

cognizant of how important you know that

32:15

financial stability

32:17

is going to be right and if you're

32:19

talking with about somebody who may be

32:21

also uh maybe undocumented or has like

32:24

an immigration issue you know the

32:25

importance to

32:27

have certain things you know awarded

32:29

because it's going to be impossible

32:31

in a situation that they may be to to

32:34

you know

32:35

get new financing to get a car to do

32:37

those things

32:38

so really understanding all of the

32:40

circumstances

32:42

is gonna not only create a better

32:44

outcome for for that individual but for

32:46

the family and the children who are also

32:48

impacted so uh

32:52

i don't know how deep into this we want

32:54

to get but i'm learning a lot

32:56

um a lot of it i already kind of knew

32:59

the gist of but i'm learning it

33:00

more more concretely here and so what

33:04

and i think of myself as someone who's

33:07

good at doing intake and doing client

33:09

interviews but maybe i'm bad at it now

33:11

uh but so i want to ask like the example

33:14

amber you gave was

33:16

and let me preface this by saying i

33:18

rarely interact with individuals who

33:20

at least are coming to us because of

33:22

instances of domestic violence um

33:24

but sometimes i do and so for my own

33:26

edification

33:28

say for example there was an instance in

33:30

which an intake or a client

33:32

was the victim of of domestic violence

33:35

and they didn't file a police report or

33:37

call the police

33:39

you use that example and i'm actually

33:41

genuinely curious how do you ask that

33:43

how do you figure that out because it

33:46

might be something that's

33:47

pretty common i know we know it's very

33:49

common and if we have a pro bono

33:50

attorney in the same circumstance

33:52

i'm sure they would want to know like

33:53

how do i phrase this to

33:55

not make this person clam up

33:58

so i and typically what i'll say is

34:00

instead of asking

34:02

you know did you know instead of saying

34:05

well why didn't you make a police report

34:07

i'll ask it very open-ended right so

34:10

um did you talk to anyone about what

34:13

happened

34:14

you know um you know was there you know

34:17

you can ask it right instead of saying

34:19

why didn't you make a police report you

34:21

could say

34:22

you know was there any report to law

34:24

enforcement made

34:25

and also i think it helps to give

34:27

context about why you're asking about

34:29

this

34:30

right so saying you know this is

34:32

something that sometimes might get

34:34

brought

34:34

get asked in court you know i'm not i'm

34:37

not you know

34:38

asked this is the reason why i'm asking

34:40

you this right to give that contact

34:42

so the victim doesn't feel like okay

34:45

they're judging me right um and shut

34:48

down

34:52

and i guess you want to remember too

34:53

like you know the situation i'm sorry

34:55

interrupt but i mean

34:56

i know this by the way i interviewed my

34:57

client like if they're in a disaster you

35:00

want to ask them

35:00

so was your car flooded could you even

35:03

go somewhere could you use your phone

35:04

where your lights on

35:06

you know and as you're kind of asking

35:07

these questions and you know now apply

35:09

i think the client realizes oh yeah

35:11

you're right and they realize now okay

35:13

we're in this together

35:14

and you're right about that thank you

35:15

for cleaning me and moving me forward

35:16

that's what i would especially for me as

35:18

a male to interview most of our clients

35:19

you know 80-90%

35:20

were female there was definitely a

35:22

shutdown like this guy's not gonna know

35:23

and once you identify that way and kind

35:25

of say let's go through the process and

35:27

see what's gonna matter

35:28

paint the picture what happened you know

35:30

then i think they feel more comfortable

35:31

talking to you once you gain that trust

35:35

and i think it's it's really helpful if

35:36

you lead into it like that right

35:38

so you know now i want to ask you some

35:41

questions

35:42

about your relationship and and how your

35:45

spouse your significant other treated

35:46

you during the relationship

35:48

if at any time you need to take a break

35:50

or you

35:51

you feel overwhelmed we can you know we

35:54

can

35:54

stop talking right to let them know that

35:57

it's okay

35:57

right because i mean we know talking

36:01

about the incidents right

36:02

um can bring up secondary trauma for

36:05

survivors and so we don't we don't want

36:07

to cause that and so it's important to

36:09

let them know it's okay if you need to

36:11

take a break

36:12

right and i think it's why it's

36:13

important for attorneys that are working

36:15

with

36:16

the survivors to understand the effects

36:18

of trauma and how

36:19

it plays out in different ways for

36:20

different survivors so that

36:22

if they see those reactions um that they

36:25

can you know say okay well let's let's

36:27

take a break right now you know

36:28

um and and like maricarmen said we're

36:31

we're very fortunately glad to have our

36:34

social work team and also have

36:36

these wonderful connections you know

36:37

with our shelter partners

36:40

to assist and support survivors

36:42

throughout this process because

36:45

it is you know it is very very

36:47

challenging

36:49

and i think um in addition to once we

36:52

get that story out

36:54

the first time um it's so important to

36:56

not have them like repeat it

36:58

over and over again because that

37:00

re-traumatizes

37:01

uh sometimes by the time they get to our

37:03

office or to speak with one of us

37:05

they've already had to tell the story

37:07

you know if there was law enforcement

37:09

law enforcement

37:10

cps i mean maybe a shelter worker and

37:14

so the more they have to retell that

37:16

experience i know that

37:18

um it it really impacts their ability

37:22

their trauma threshold i mean it's just

37:24

over

37:26

the top at that point so we try to

37:28

minimize that so if we're working with

37:30

somebody we

37:31

hopefully have already a pretty good

37:33

description and fleshed out situation

37:36

so that you can start working with an

37:38

idea of what that is

37:40

about and then maybe only when you're

37:41

about to get to court you can go

37:43

and really start looking into it some

37:45

more in how you're going to present that

37:48

evidence

37:50

uh and you guys mentioned earlier

37:52

different types of domestic violence

37:53

i think one of the things you need to be

37:55

aware of when you're screening is

37:57

sometimes it's not the traditional or

38:00

mainstream but what we think of as

38:02

domestic violence

38:03

directed physical or verbal abuse at the

38:06

person

38:07

sometimes it's indirect they threatened

38:09

pets

38:10

they had one client

38:14

threaten to burn all of her artwork if

38:16

she left

38:18

which she had a lot and some of it she

38:19

had done herself which were

38:21

is irreplaceable and also i see a lot of

38:24

financial abuse

38:25

where they don't have any control of the

38:28

funds

38:29

um i had one poor lady she didn't even

38:31

know what bank accounts they had her

38:33

name wasn't on any other credit card she

38:35

didn't know if he had a retirement

38:36

account she didn't know if they had a

38:37

mortgage on the house

38:39

and that's why she was coming to legal

38:41

aid because she literally had finally

38:42

left

38:42

but she didn't have anything and just

38:46

be aware it may not be what you're

38:48

thinking of as abuse when you're asking

38:51

those questions

38:54

exactly and and i think we we have to be

38:57

really careful on how we ask the

38:59

questions as well

39:00

um because although some of it like

39:03

financial abuse or

39:04

some of the other kind of um abusive

39:07

manipulative control that may exist may

39:10

not be actionable

39:11

for purposes of a protective order or

39:14

for purposes

39:15

of you know finding that there was a

39:17

finding of family violence as

39:19

it's described in the family code it

39:22

really matters for the court at the time

39:24

that they make a decision on certain

39:26

items but many times i will talk to a

39:29

survivor

39:30

and they'll say it's only verbal that's

39:32

only verbal that i've experienced or

39:34

emotional abuse

39:36

but it's important that we ask what

39:37

words were used right

39:39

because if the word is like you're a

39:41

terrible mother or you're

39:42

worthless it's one thing versus i am

39:45

going to kill you

39:46

you know it may be a verbal threat but

39:48

it is something that

39:50

is indeed actionable and that it is a

39:52

basis

39:53

for family violence um either protective

39:55

order and or

39:57

other measures that could give some

39:59

relief

40:00

in a family law court and we do want to

40:04

share

40:04

right for the attorneys out there that

40:05

are wondering kind of how

40:07

is there a guide or something right on

40:09

the right questions to ask

40:11

the aba the commission on domestic

40:13

violence did put out some materials it's

40:16

a tool um specifically for attorneys to

40:19

screen for domestic violence and it

40:21

walks you through some of these

40:22

questions that we're talking about right

40:24

in a very open-ended way

40:26

so like one of the examples of the

40:27

questions right is there anything

40:29

um that goes on in your home that makes

40:31

you feel afraid right so it's very

40:33

open-ended right and it addresses a lot

40:35

of different types of violence that

40:37

that survivors might be experiencing

40:39

right including

40:40

um like belinda mentioned abuse of pets

40:42

right

40:43

um economic abuse so that is a resource

40:47

that that

40:48

is available for attorneys when they're

40:49

wondering right how how can i phrase

40:51

these questions

40:56

i wanted to say something that kind of

40:58

ties in not only to what amber said but

41:00

you know stuart you mentioned earlier

41:02

that you know you don't

41:03

maybe deal directly with somebody

41:07

who experiences you know domestic

41:08

violence because you're doing housing

41:11

but what i would tell you is that the

41:12

rates are one in four women

41:14

in this country um are or will

41:17

experience domestic violence during

41:19

their lifetime is that the truth is that

41:21

you are engaging

41:22

with these individuals um and you know

41:25

it's really important that even in in a

41:27

non

41:28

you know family law related situation

41:30

where you are

41:32

working with somebody that you are

41:33

cognizant that they are either

41:35

a survivor of violence or sexual assault

41:37

and that

41:38

is impacting sometimes in some of the

41:40

other areas of law that we work with

41:43

right because uh it impacts everything

41:46

um so i i want you to know that whatever

41:49

area of law you practice of these tools

41:52

are really effective

41:53

and it'll give you a better

41:54

understanding of how you can best serve

41:56

your clients

41:57

and that's what i wanted to mention uh

41:59

that the finding of family

42:01

violence you know we're talking about

42:02

that and how these things are how you

42:04

can identify it and you get that but

42:05

then the finding of family violence on

42:07

the legal aspect of it

42:08

you mentioned it in brief but it does

42:10

affect uh custody

42:11

issues it will affect the division of

42:13

property if they're married over 10

42:14

years it can actually mean alimony or

42:16

i think spousal maintenance and even for

42:19

like

42:19

leases and housing it does matter and so

42:23

i want to make sure that our pro bono

42:24

attorneys maybe don't deal with dv

42:25

issues often

42:26

to realize how important it is and why

42:28

sometimes it becomes sort of a battle of

42:30

like saying you know

42:31

was there a family of violence on both

42:33

sides thing because they might have the

42:34

respondent and saying that there wasn't

42:35

on my side

42:36

but it is a very important tool to use

42:38

if you do have it you have that client

42:40

space with you with a protective order

42:41

there's a finding somewhere

42:43

it can apply many different things

42:45

that's one of the things i do want to

42:47

touch on

42:47

before we uh leave the podcast

42:51

just on protective orders we've

42:52

mentioned protective orders a couple

42:54

times

42:54

during this program but what are the

42:57

different

42:58

types of protective orders what

42:59

protections should they offer and then

43:00

how do you actually get one for your

43:02

client if they need one

43:07

amber do you want to address this one

43:10

and i'd be happy to

43:11

to talk about it as well but i i think

43:14

that definitely

43:15

um you can cover this and i might touch

43:18

up

43:18

at the end so there are

43:21

there are a number of different types of

43:22

protective orders and some are more well

43:24

known than others right typically

43:26

what most people think of when they

43:27

think about protective words is the

43:29

family violence protective order

43:31

but there's also protective orders for

43:33

stalking um

43:34

sexual assault or sexual abuse um and

43:37

for human trafficking as well um

43:41

and um stalking sorry i'm not sure if i

43:44

said that one already

43:45

um so those are available

43:48

and they have different requirements

43:50

right and different lengths of time that

43:51

they can be in effect for um for example

43:54

the family violence protective order

43:56

requires

43:56

um that the person that you're seeking a

43:59

protective order against either be

44:00

a family member or foreign resident of

44:03

that the household

44:04

right and you can also obtain a

44:07

protective order

44:08

in situations where um maybe

44:11

a husband and wife they're separated

44:14

right and the

44:16

the um we'll just use this for example

44:18

right the husband's

44:20

new significant other is now um

44:23

is now threatening and harassing and um

44:26

maybe even assaulted on the applicant

44:28

they can actually file for a family

44:30

violence protective order against that

44:31

third party because there's that

44:33

that connection that that nexus there

44:35

with the relationship

44:36

um so family violence protective orders

44:39

we

44:40

think about you have to think about is

44:41

there this required relationship right

44:44

but with um sexual assault stalking and

44:47

human trafficking there's no

44:49

relationship required

44:50

i think that's what confuses a lot of

44:52

practitioners who don't

44:54

who aren't um who don't normally take

44:56

these cases is that there's no

44:58

there's no relationship requirement um

45:00

for those stalking sexual assault or

45:02

human trafficking protective orders and

45:05

those can be granted for up to a

45:06

lifetime of the

45:08

victim and the um the perpetrator right

45:11

um so it's it's very very helpful for

45:14

survivors of stalking and sexual abuse

45:17

right to be able to obtain those for up

45:18

to a lifetime

45:20

um and then for family violence

45:21

protective orders typically

45:23

the duration is two years although they

45:24

can be longer in instances where there's

45:27

um what assault that's considered a

45:29

felony right such as strangulation or

45:32

serious bodily injury

45:33

um you can obtain a protective order for

45:35

longer or if there's been

45:37

two prior protective orders with finding

45:40

a family violence you can have a

45:41

projective order for more than two years

45:47

yeah one thing that i will add up with

45:49

the non-family violence

45:51

protective orders the one that may apply

45:53

for perhaps a co-worker

45:55

uh somebody that maybe is in the same

45:57

school with you and

45:59

maybe somebody that was an acquaintance

46:01

um and

46:02

you know those are so important and

46:04

sometimes individuals feel

46:06

so lost in their ability of what

46:09

recourses they may have

46:11

um and it could really make a big

46:12

difference um what we

46:14

know is that when you're in a family

46:16

bonds uh relationship or were you in a

46:18

family

46:19

you at least know what the other party

46:21

is about to do right either because

46:23

you've shared you know some life

46:25

experiences together

46:27

you may know the patterns you may know

46:28

whatever they go to work but when you're

46:30

talking

46:31

about somebody that is merely an

46:33

acquaintance it's a lot

46:35

more scary because you have no idea

46:38

really

46:39

where they may be what they're doing

46:40

their their patterns and there's

46:42

it's much harder to safety plan when you

46:44

don't know the other

46:45

individual so um those are

46:48

are challenging but the requirements are

46:50

going to be substantially different

46:52

and also it's a fantastic tool um

46:56

in in the many tools that somebody can

46:58

do to stay safe

47:00

one of the things that i i think is

47:01

great for in terms of a pro bono

47:03

attorney who may be interested in doing

47:06

a protective order case is that there's

47:08

such a quick

47:09

turnaround right this is not going to be

47:11

a case that lasts two to three years

47:14

because from filing to the time that you

47:16

go to court prove your case

47:17

you know it's going to be 14 to 20 days

47:20

depending on what jurisdiction you're in

47:22

and then maybe there might be a

47:23

continuance but it's something that

47:25

you know does not take too much of your

47:28

time and that there's going to be ample

47:29

of support and resources

47:31

um for somebody who may be interested in

47:34

doing this work

47:35

that is so needed and could really

47:37

change

47:38

the life of somebody

47:41

and for our pro bono attorneys out there

47:44

thinking of helping what other type of

47:46

cases would be good

47:48

for them to take on so

47:51

since um the pandemic started right

47:54

we've seen

47:54

a major need for increases in

47:57

enforcement actions

47:59

and the really great thing about filing

48:00

enforcement actions is they also

48:02

include the availability of attorney's

48:04

fees right for the prevailing party

48:06

so um enforcements can include things

48:09

like we've seen

48:10

um an increase of need for assistance

48:12

with enforcement for

48:14

things like spousal maintenance right

48:16

which for a survivor can be

48:17

very important in just maintaining that

48:20

financial

48:21

stability right um increase in

48:24

needs for enforcement of possession and

48:26

access orders because we know

48:28

we've seen throughout the pandemic

48:30

there's been an increase in

48:32

imparting in um especially abusers right

48:36

not following the um court order

48:38

possession and access schedule

48:40

and so filing an enforcement um to get

48:44

to have the child returned and the

48:46

current order followed is very important

48:49

in the past we've been able to typically

48:50

call law enforcement but

48:52

with the pandemic law enforcement has

48:54

been much more reluctant and less likely

48:56

to go out and

48:57

try to recover the child even if there's

48:58

a court order in place

49:00

and so this is another really um these

49:03

are very quick cases right it's

49:05

you know file your motion set it for a

49:07

hearing um

49:09

usually get a hearing pretty quickly on

49:10

these um and

49:12

and you have the availability right of

49:14

getting attorney's fees as well which is

49:15

which is great

49:18

and i think you know just getting a

49:19

divorce for somebody that's been

49:20

separated for

49:21

many many years and that now you're in a

49:24

situation where there may be

49:26

you know either covid or any kind of

49:28

other disaster

49:29

and like it's an impetus to get things

49:32

squared away right either to

49:33

clear title to property because you've

49:35

been separated for so long and you want

49:37

to make sure that

49:38

if something happens to you that you

49:40

know all the affairs are in order you

49:41

know so those things are

49:43

things that we're starting to see

49:45

individuals that just been separated for

49:47

a long time and never got to the next

49:48

step of

49:49

divorcing so those are also cases that

49:53

are pretty straightforward

49:54

and usually most of their assets and

49:57

children

49:58

are either grown or there's already

49:59

orders in place for those children so

50:02

it makes it just a process that may need

50:04

somebody to walk them through it

50:06

but it makes a big difference to to the

50:09

individuals

50:11

and that's another aspect um i think

50:13

people kind of forget about

50:15

especially if they are practicing family

50:17

law out there and want to volunteer

50:19

this podcast and this website's all

50:22

about disaster and they

50:23

don't think well i'm a family lawyer

50:24

what does that have to do with disaster

50:26

and to that i have to say i was actually

50:29

hired by lone star's disaster relief

50:31

unit from the oag because

50:33

they were getting family cases for title

50:36

clearing purposes

50:37

like you said married separated for a

50:40

very long time

50:42

both names still on the title they 

50:44

going for recovery funds

50:46

both owners had a sign she has no clue

50:48

where the husband is

50:49

she can't get the recovery funds until

50:51

we take care of this

50:52

and you take care of this by getting the

50:54

divorce so

50:56

yes and usually they're very simple

50:58

usually the only thing is the house

51:00

and maybe some service issues sometimes

51:03

i was able to

51:04

fairly quickly and they were all about

51:06

signing paperwork so

51:08

that's those simple divorces are what 60

51:10

days if everything goes really smoothly

51:12

so

51:13

and not very time consuming not not a

51:15

lot of hours and hours and hours of work

51:17

so but but still needing an attorney

51:19

because of the property issue right it's

51:21

not going to be something that they

51:22

could just go

51:23

fill out a form and not really

51:25

understand so having that guidance and

51:27

that knowledge

51:28

uh it's going to go a long way in

51:30

protecting everybody and to make sure

51:32

that

51:32

you know property is distributed or you

51:35

know they can get the relief that they

51:36

need

51:37

which makes a huge difference in their

51:39

life because if they don't get their

51:40

house repaired

51:41

they're possibly facing homelessness or

51:43

staying on a relative's couch for months

51:45

until

51:46

they can find a new place which as we

51:48

know affordable housing in the city

51:49

after disaster is

51:51

non-existent

51:54

okay i think let's see pablo the

51:58

time cop still i mean we got what about

52:00

five minutes left

52:02

we are about seven minutes or so

52:04

actually we're still there and we're

52:05

pretty good

52:06

at this pablo the time cop wow come on

52:09

man wait y'all gotta use that

52:12

i'm the oldest person here just kind of

52:14

call me father time that's what you

52:25

anyone who works at legal aid and really

52:28

anyone who works at legal aid or pays attention 

52:29

knows the bad stories about family

52:32

violence

52:33

right um i mean they're all over the

52:36

news and you we said to the top of the

52:38

show today that

52:39

the rates have gone up murders have gone

52:43

up during this crisis this covid 19

52:44

crisis and so

52:46

we all kind of know the bad stories and

52:48

so i don't want to i don't want to

52:49

belabor that but i do want to know if

52:50

you guys want to share

52:52

anything that especially if it's in this

52:54

crisis but it could be

52:55

from a different natural disaster uh

52:58

where you have a client story you might

52:59

want to share that the

53:00

outcome is it up good and and because of

53:03

the help of a legal attorney or a pro

53:04

bono attorney you were able to either

53:06

get them out of an abusive situation or

53:08

potentially save someone's life

53:10

open up to both you i guess i

53:14

i have had the privilege of doing this

53:16

work for for a long time pablo i'm right

53:18

behind you i think uh 20 years at trla

53:21

this

53:21

april so i've had the

53:24

not only the ability to to do the work

53:27

but

53:27

see my clients that i served in the past

53:31

like come full circle right i've been

53:34

long enough to not only see

53:35

the times where things didn't work but

53:37

then where the work that we did

53:39

created something amazing i've had a

53:41

couple of clients who have started like

53:43

their own organization service

53:45

organizations to help

53:47

others you know start a charity event to

53:49

make sure that

53:50

children who are in the shelter are

53:52

getting toys for christmas

53:54

and this again is somebody that you know

53:56

when we started working with them

53:58

needed all the help and now not only are

54:00

they

54:02

moving forward and changing their own

54:04

lives but changing the lives of others

54:06

because

54:07

we gave them that ability to to free

54:09

themselves of

54:10

a very abusive situation and and and

54:13

they did all the work we

54:14

just had the benefit of being a tool for

54:18

that change so

54:19

i am grateful for the work because i all

54:22

the bad things that have an also to take

54:24

all the good things and it gives me hope

54:26

for

54:26

for you know what we're doing and for

54:29

all the clients that i will see and yet

54:31

to see

54:34

along those lines i had a client

54:37

call me um earlier this year

54:41

one of them by one of my earlier cases

54:43

that i took on and i represented her

54:45

in a in a protective order case and then

54:49

helped her get divorced and also

54:52

because of all of the issues with the

54:55

court hearings in the custody case there

54:57

was also

54:57

another matter she was dealing with with

54:59

one of her children's school

55:02

and i represented her in that case in jp

55:05

court as well

55:06

and so i got to know the family very

55:09

very well

55:10

over the years um in representing her

55:12

and she had called me back

55:15

out of the blue earlier this year and

55:18

one of her daughters was going to go to

55:20

law school and she was calling me

55:22

just very very excited um you know that

55:26

her daughter wanted to go to law school

55:27

and she just wanted to call me and let

55:29

me know because you know this

55:31

had became possible because she was able

55:33

to leave the abusive relationship and

55:35

the children were doing well and thriving

55:37

and it was just such an incredible story

55:39

right and sometimes you know when we're

55:41

in it

55:41

doing these cases day in and day out you

55:43

know it is

55:45

you know it can it it's challenging work

55:48

right

55:48

but to know what a difference is making

55:51

in people's lives right

55:53

um and how incredible it can see because

55:56

i mean

55:56

i'm sure maricarmen will agree with me

55:58

but you've seen you see

56:00

over the course of the case right how a

56:03

client is just transformed as you walk

56:05

them through that process right

56:07

especially if you're

56:08

you're assisting a client getting a

56:09

protective order you know at the

56:11

beginning

56:12

you know the fear and the emotions right

56:14

it's just it's a lot

56:16

and then as they go through the process

56:17

and to see after the divorce

56:19

right um and after they get orders in

56:21

place for the children right

56:23

there you know to see and you know

56:25

especially if

56:26

they're doing counseling and all these

56:27

other services right

56:29

the change that happens right you see

56:31

them become more independent and opening

56:33

up

56:34

and and it's just it's incredible it's

56:36

very

56:37

it's very amazing how you know by

56:40

providing you know trauma informed

56:42

services right we can really help

56:44

empower clients and

56:45

and where they can go after that it's

56:47

it's it's such a blessing to get to do

56:50

this work

56:51

one of the benefits of being father time

56:52

here i can have many examples i can give

56:54

you only have three minutes left but i

56:55

can tell you some more about that but

56:57

i think i also want to talk to our

56:58

audience that if you're part of the

56:59

community that's suffering into a

57:00

disaster and you're taking on cases

57:02

you are part of the recovery i mean it

57:04

helps you i think personally and then it

57:06

helps the client

57:07

to be to come out of that you know

57:08

otherwise you see the community doing

57:10

something and involved and you're

57:11

wondering what can i do for my community

57:12

this is a perfect thing to do and then

57:15

when you realize a personal aspect as

57:17

the ladies have mentioned here

57:18

how your client will flourish you know

57:20

male female you know domestic partner or

57:22

whatever when they come out of this

57:24

it's a whole different person and i've

57:25

had i've never had a great story i've

57:27

got about law school but

57:28

i've had clients who actually become

57:30

board members for our organization

57:31

and are doing and thriving quite well

57:33

i've had the one that really struck me

57:35

once when i went over i think to buy

57:36

something somewhere before this covid

57:38

madness

57:39

and the cashier behind you know the

57:41

counter there she was young maybe in

57:43

you know 20 or so and she you know she's

57:46

looking at me and charging and stuff and

57:47

i feel like she wanted to ask me a

57:49

question

57:49

and i'm always kind of careful like you

57:50

know if i can ask a legal question

57:52

because they know who i am

57:53

and i go you know and she's like you're

57:54

working legal aid yeah i do

57:56

and my mom is so-and-so and i'm like oh

57:58

that was like years ago she was i was

58:00

the daughter that was there going with

58:01

you for that custody battle

58:02

you know i'm in college now and i wanted

58:03

to thank you for all that you've done so

58:05

far

58:05

and it just blew me away and i'm like

58:07

yeah i would have never known otherwise

58:08

you know she was but she was like really

58:10

ecstatic and happy

58:11

and she wanted to let me know how much

58:12

that happens and so you'll never hear

58:14

you know from all clients but it happens

58:16

and it multiplies many ways over because

58:18

you stop the cycle there

58:19

so that's a great benefit you get you

58:21

help in the recovery and you stop a

58:22

cycle in somebody's life so

58:24

that should provide some kind of benefit

58:26

for you

58:28

we've got a minute and a half in case

58:30

you don't want any uh get more tissues

58:32

and start

58:32

wiping off you know away your tears here

58:34

on these stories that i'm saying but

58:36

i don't know how you want to wrap it up

58:38

but that's just a great point um

58:40

sometimes it is a cycle sometimes you're

58:42

breaking generations

58:44

Of domestic violence and i'm sorry i'm

58:47

about to

58:48

cry because of the kids that's i want to

58:51

help

58:51

uh the survivor but i also know how hard

58:54

it is on the

58:55

kids and what a disadvantage that

58:58

traumatic household can have on

59:00

their education prospects their job

59:02

prospects

59:04

sorry no no they can take a toll on you

59:06

i think every legal aid

59:07

attorney knows that that i think the

59:09

point at the point you stop caring and

59:12

don't cry

59:12

is when you probably don't want to do

59:14

this anymore because it'd be becoming a

59:15

little callous so

59:17

um passionate about it it's good

59:21

uh so we got to finish on a 

59:22

up beat note here okay now listen uh

59:25

thank you all this has actually been one

59:26

of the interactive uh

59:28

uh like quick podcasts we've done so

59:30

amber maricarmen apart from your

59:32

knowledge and what you provided i think

59:33

stuart and belinda here

59:34

have also just kind of made this program

59:36

just flow quite well

59:38

i think we might have some future ones

59:40

related to this issue you know more

59:41

specific issues as volunteers tell us

59:43

tell us but thank you not only for the

59:45

time but i think for the resources

59:46

uh belinda uh stuart anything you want

59:49

to add before we turn over to the ladies

59:50

and you know

59:51

in the podcast no i'm good i just want

59:53

to again thank both of you for joining

59:55

us this is a really fun one

59:56

uh a hard hard really tough subject but

59:59

really important

60:00

and we couldn't have ended better with

60:02

the with the uplifting story so again

60:04

thank you for joining

60:06

and i just wanted to add the resources

60:08

mentioned

60:10

uh in the podcast can be found on the

60:12

websites

60:13

the ladies mentioned and also at the

60:15

texas disaster legal help website

60:18

on the pro bono portal we do have a

60:21

knowledge resource library that has

60:22

templates information uh anything you

60:26

could possibly need as far as

60:27

information

60:28

wise and if you do sign up there's also

60:31

mentorship

60:31

live chat to answer questions if you are

60:35

interested in volunteering please check

60:36

out our site

60:37

thank you amber maricarmen anything you

60:40

want to

60:41

say here at the end well i just want to

60:44

thank

60:45

all three of you for you know inviting

60:48

us and making

60:49

this an issue that is uh important we

60:52

we can't do it alone and we certainly

60:55

would love to see the pro bono community

60:58

you know

60:58

come on board we will do and help and

61:02

assist and provide all the support

61:03

that's needed

61:04

uh because the work is challenging but

61:07

as you can

61:08

hear i mean from our experiences is that

61:11

sometimes it's much more rewarding than

61:14

than the challenge that we have

61:16

so uh thank you for for the opportunity

61:18

and for

61:19

um highlighting this important need of

61:21

our community

61:23

thank you thank you so much for having

61:25

us yes and i just want a second maricarmen

61:27

 right

61:28

these cases are so important right and

61:31

especially with the pandemic right we've

61:33

seen the increase

61:34

in applications and need for this type

61:36

of work so we really want to encourage

61:39

um pro bono volunteers to help out

61:42

however they can right there's

61:44

there's a case for for whatever your

61:46

time commitments are we have

61:48

we have a case available for you so

61:50

please don't be afraid

61:52

um because there are lots of resources

61:54

and we're out we're here to help

61:56

there you go there you go auditioning

61:57

for my job again but i'll leave it alone

61:59

here at this point but

62:00

honestly thank you both of you so much

62:02

i'm gonna stop the recording at this

62:03

point and

62:04

thank you for your time