Avoiding Contractor Fraud After a Disaster

New Podcast from Texas Disaster Legal Help (TDLH)!  After natural disasters, salespeople often go door-to-door in damaged neighborhoods offering cleanup or repair services. While many of these individuals are honest and reputable, others are not. Listen to our guest from the National Insurance Crime Bureau, Fred Lohmann, speak on what to look for in a legitimate contractor, the most common scams, and the number one red flags that tell you to run from a company. Learn more at www.nicb.org or become one of our volunteer attorneys. 

Visit our website at https://texasdisasterlegalhelp.org/

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Transcript

Transcript Contractor Fraud

Speaker: Fred Lohmann from NICB (https://www.nicb.org/)

Date: Sept. 24, 2021

00:02

okay here we are

00:04

all right hello folks uh this is pablo

00:06

maguire with another episode here for

00:08

our podcast series

00:09

uh we're gonna start telling you a bit

00:11

about the project and then going over to

00:12

our speaker who's quite knowledgeable in

00:13

the issue of contractor fraud

00:16

uh we are coordinated we are a current

00:18

project between legal aid northwest

00:20

texas

00:21

lone star legal aid and texas rio

00:23

grande legal aid aimed at improving

00:25

access to justice for those affected by

00:27

disasters our project allows both

00:29

disaster survivors and pro bono

00:31

attorneys to access critical resources

00:33

in one place while at the same time

00:35

making it easier to connect disaster

00:36

survivors needing help with volunteer

00:38

attorneys willing to provide it

00:40

in this way the project team hopes to

00:42

increase the number of disaster survivor

00:44

clients who receive high quality legal

00:46

assistance as they continue to navigate

00:47

the recovery process

00:49

after a disaster

00:51

and provide the support and mentorship

00:52

pro bono attorneys need to achieve the

00:54

success

00:56

so with that introduction out of the way

00:58

again i'm pablo almaguer from texas rio

01:00

grande legal aid uh here with me are 

01:02

the usual host belinda

01:04

martinez from lone star legal aid who is

01:06

here and we used to have another

01:07

gentleman here who left us and we

01:10

now have amy allen from legal aid of

01:12

northwest texas joining us uh in the

01:14

hosting chair so uh you're gonna

01:17

hear her voice and maybe that'll be uh

01:19

you prefer that over the

01:21

what is it stuart’s voice in the past

01:23

whatever he had to say

01:25

uh but we missed the guy but let's go

01:27

ahead and start with the uh presentation

01:29

here you wanna introduce our speaker

01:32

yes thank you pablo

01:34

uh with us today is frederick p lohmann

01:37

he serves as the director of field

01:38

operations southwest region of the

01:40

national insurance crime bureau

01:42

the region encompassed the state of

01:44

arkansas louisiana new mexico oklahoma

01:46

and texas

01:48

he supervises a staff of special agents

01:50

and support personnel assigned to

01:51

investigate criminal conspiracies

01:53

involving insurance fraud vehicle cargo

01:56

and heavy equipment thefts

01:58

mr lohmann began his career in law

01:59

enforcement as a military policeman in

02:01

the united states marine corps

02:03

he served as a law enforcement officer

02:04

for 20 years with state municipal  law

02:06

enforcement agencies in oklahoma and

02:08

texas and has been commissioned for 43

02:11

years

02:12

mr lohmann joined the national insurance

02:14

crime bureau in 2006 and he has over 23

02:16

years of experience conducting complex

02:18

investigations into suspected property

02:20

casualty commercial insurance fraud

02:22

burglary motor vehicle

02:24

and heavy equipment thefts so obviously

02:26

just

02:27

an expert in this field thank you for

02:29

joining us mr lohmann

02:31

thank you for having us

02:34

okay first question i'd like to get into

02:36

is just

02:38

contractor fraud scams um who's most at

02:40

risk for those

02:43

well uh we've noticed that

02:47

the elderly and also

02:51

those individuals that live in

02:53

impoverished areas

02:56

typically get

02:59

really focused on or targeted

03:02

by the contractors and uh

03:05

we see this in the aftermath of

03:07

catastrophes we're seeing this

03:10

in louisiana

03:12

with hurricane ida in the aftermath of

03:15

that but you know any time there's a

03:18

natural disaster uh and there's an

03:20

opportunity for those that have a little

03:22

larceny in their heart uh we   see them

03:26

come in from out of state and they

03:27

basically prey upon uh you know these

03:30

these vulnerable groups

03:32

to take advantage of

03:37

great and especially after a disaster

03:40

you're

03:41

already

03:42

not focused you're a little bit

03:43

traumatized so

03:44

i think a lot of the scammers kind of

03:46

get through even some of the

03:47

sophisticated people sometimes

03:50

that's true

03:52

you know

03:53

a lot of people that may be the very

03:55

first time that they've suffered a hail

03:58

loss or uh or a flood or some type of

04:02

natural disaster to their home their

04:04

vehicle

04:05

and you know they don't know really what

04:07

to do

04:09

and obviously, they should work with

04:11

their insurance company if they have

04:13

insurance coverage

04:14

uh if they do have questions or

04:16

they have concerns they shouldn't be shy

04:19

about reaching out to the insurance

04:21

industry uh that provides those policies

04:24

and get some guidance

04:26

and direction right

04:29

absolutely they are there to assist you

04:31

correct and you don't want to rely upon

04:34

the person that's knocking on your door

04:36

offering

04:37

you know uh

04:38

really to sell you the moon that's

04:40

that's the first mistake to make

04:43

is to uh go along with

04:45

that

04:47

exactly

04:48

what are the most um

04:50

common type of scams what do you run

04:52

into most often

04:54

well and obviously in north texas uh

04:58

the biggest issue we have are hail

05:00

storms i mean we had this year 2021 we

05:03

had a storm that was uh that uh

05:06

damaged over

05:08

i think it was over a billion and a half

05:09

dollars in property losses uh to the

05:13

north texas area i i myself

05:19

had to deal with three claims concerning

05:22

some rental properties that we had

05:24

and

05:26

you know they

05:27

we had the solicitors come out uh from

05:30

everywhere we had solicitors as far away

05:32

as minnesota that came down with their

05:35

trucks

05:36

and uh we're offering to do the repair

05:38

works on the uh on the uh

05:42

residential homes that we uh rented out

05:44

and so

05:45

there's a lot of money to be made but

05:48

sadly uh

05:49

you really have to do your homework as a

05:51

consumer to protect yourself and make

05:54

sure that you're dealing with a

05:55

reputable

05:57

contractor and the hail storms are you

06:00

know probably the most predominant

06:02

issue up here in north texas if you live

06:05

along the gulf coast area texas

06:08

uh you know you may have more issues

06:11

with hurricane

06:13

you know wind storm damage

06:15

to the roofing structures but up here

06:17

it's predominantly

06:19

hail and that's when the consumers are

06:22

most vulnerable in the aftermath of

06:24

those storms and you got to do your

06:26

homework to protect yourself yes amy

06:31

can you talk a little bit about um

06:33

particularly roofing contractors and how

06:35

they

06:36

try to work in your deductible into that

06:39

into the pricing in that billing

06:42

well as you know

06:44

from your prior experience amy this

06:47

that's illegal in texas now

06:50

for them to be complicit in uh scheme to

06:55

basically waive the deductible is is

06:58

illegal the texas attorney general uh

07:01

consumer protection division has the

07:03

primary responsibility now to

07:05

investigate those

07:07

uh those types of crimes they're a class

07:09

a misdemeanor in texas

07:11

and uh essentially

07:13

you have an obligation as an policy

07:17

holder as an insurer

07:18

when you have a uh

07:20

a loss resulting from hail whether it's

07:22

on your automobile or your home

07:26

uh the insurance companies can compel

07:28

you to provide proof that you've paid

07:31

that deductible you know that's that's

07:33

your part

07:35

of uh

07:36

of getting your home repaired or your

07:38

vehicle repaired that's your

07:40

responsibility and the contractors uh

07:43

frankly don't have any legal standing to

07:46

relieve a policyholder of that

07:49

responsibility that contracts between

07:52

the consumer the policyholder and the

07:55

insurance company that they're doing

07:56

business business with but they'll

07:58

promise all kinds of things

08:00

um you know uh to to

08:03

as part of that deductible waving and

08:06

the thing a consumer has to remember

08:08

is if they're relieving

08:11

you of that responsibility if let's say

08:13

it's 2 000

08:15

somewhere in that job, there's going to

08:18

be 2 000

08:19

less work

08:20

done

08:21

in that repair whether it's drip

08:24

edge uh or flashing or uh it may be a

08:28

substandard

08:30

you know shingle that will be applied to

08:32

the roof something is going to get cut

08:34

in that process there's nothing for

08:36

nothing

08:37

and

08:39

you have to be very vigilant to prevent

08:41

those types of things from happening and

08:43

you should as a consumer if a contractor

08:46

offers that you should walk away from it

08:49

immediately or and ask them to leave

08:51

your home and close the door

08:54

because if you are complicit in that you

08:56

are complicit you're basically violating

08:59

the law yourself

09:03

one of my other um i guess favorite scam

09:05

stories is the

09:07

roofer that comes and checks your roof

09:08

out and has something on the bottom of

09:10

his feet that damages your roof

09:13

yes

09:14

they call they refer to that in the

09:16

insurance industry is mechanical damage

09:19

and there are numerous ways to do that

09:20

it can be as simple as taking a

09:23

ball-peen hammer and going up on your

09:25

roof

09:26

and just striking away

09:29

indiscriminately at the various

09:30

locations on the roof another one is

09:33

called spinning or diming where they'll

09:36

take a coin

09:37

and uh they'll go along you know the

09:40

roof uh surface

09:42

and they'll damage these

09:44

shingles uh with that coin or some

09:46

something similar to that but what

09:49

people need to understand is nature is

09:51

very

09:52

uh

09:53

very indiscriminate it does not uh

09:56

it does not cause losses or hail strikes

10:01

in

10:02

patterns and as humans, we're pretty

10:05

predictable and that's typically what

10:08

they see

10:09

uh when the insurance adjuster or 

10:12

investigator was up on a roof you'll see

10:14

these patterns emerge and then you know

10:17

right away that that was mechanically

10:19

applied

10:20

and sadly the consumer once again

10:23

is uh is being victimized because now

10:27

if you

10:28

if you didn't have a

10:30

a hail loss if you didn't have hail

10:32

damage uh

10:34

now you have to contend with

10:36

vandalism to your roof and you're

10:38

going to have to pay your deductible if

10:41

in fact, the insurance company covers the

10:44

vandalism loss to the roof that was

10:46

caused by the uh the contractor you've

10:48

got to be vigilant if you let somebody

10:50

up on your roof, you better be paying

10:52

attention to what they're doing up there

10:54

and watching them

10:56

uh but you know it it's not beyond the

10:59

possibility

11:00

that they'll just go up on your roof and

11:02

you'll hear something because we have

11:04

we've got reports of that and you come

11:07

outside and you check on it and all of a

11:09

sudden you got people on your roof

11:10

like what are you doing up there well

11:12

we're checking to see if you have hail

11:14

damage there's no cost don't worry about

11:16

it well they've been up there and

11:18

nobody's been watching them

11:21

and i know sometimes what you

11:23

often see and i hate to

11:26

it does seem to be roofers not hating on

11:28

roofers but it just does seem to be

11:30

roofers um

11:32

my own story after harvey um once again

11:35

door-to-door solicitor for contracting

11:37

roofing surface

11:39

um

11:40

some of those guys are legit it's just

11:41

it seems to be these are the guys that

11:43

scam a lot of times

11:45

um

11:46

i talked to my husband we were putting

11:48

tarps up on the roof offered to help him

11:50

put the tarp on the roof

11:52

said hey keep me in mind when you need

11:54

your roof repair which we did know we

11:55

need our roof repaired we didn't go with

11:58

him next thing we know he's sending a

12:00

invoice to our insurance company for a

12:02

500 dollar

12:03

roof inspection

12:05

that he did

12:06

so

12:07

yes  sent a demand letter got the oag involved

12:10

explained i was attorney suddenly the

12:12

invoice disappeared but

12:14

other people in my neighborhood

12:15

weren't as lucky

12:17

so

12:19

you just have to be careful  the thing they'll

12:20

they'll take advantage of the

12:22

opportunity

12:23

and uh and sadly especially when you're

12:26

dealing with them that you know they 

12:28

could be confused um you know they may

12:30

pay money up front which you should

12:32

never do

12:33

uh and then sadly you know they'll take

12:36

the money and run and they'll never have

12:38

removed the damaged shingle or made a

12:41

repair of any sort and now you've paid

12:44

them up for the work that was supposedly

12:47

they were supposed to do

12:49

and uh they're gone you have no idea who

12:51

they are where they where they've went

12:54

and now the people that can least afford

12:56

uh

12:57

you know to have to reach back into

12:59

their wallet and pay for the repairs are

13:02

the ones that are you know in that

13:03

position to have to do that yeah you

13:06

really have to control

13:08

uh that environment whether it's you

13:11

know when they first knock at the door

13:12

don't be afraid don't be bashful ask

13:15

them for the solicitor's license if you

13:17

look they live in a community that

13:18

requires that they'll have that license

13:21

tell them to get off your property and

13:23

don't be afraid to call the police and

13:25

report it uh you have to be vigilant

13:28

in protecting yourself and you're

13:31

right you bring up a great point

13:33

not every roofing contractor is a

13:36

scammer

13:37

we have worked very closely for the last 10

13:40

years

13:41

with roofing contractors association of

13:43

texas

13:44

and the north texas roofing contractors

13:47

association

13:48

and we established this relationship

13:51

uh going back uh to uh commissioner

13:54

eleanor kitzman's uh war on hail that

13:57

she held in irving texas some years back

14:00

and that opened up the big block

14:02

insurance industry

14:04

and um

14:06

nicp

14:07

and the roofing contractors that we're

14:11

all working together now because

14:13

legitimate contractors can't compete on

14:16

a loving level playing field with those

14:18

that cheat so we're working together and

14:21

that's in the best interest of

14:23

everything

14:24

especially the consumers

14:28

mr lohmann i'm going to ask uh you

14:29

mentioned now a couple of times or a

14:31

couple of resources there to call the

14:33

police when something happens and then

14:34

you mentioned the oag or attorney

14:36

general's office the audience here are

14:38

attorneys right and so they might want

14:40

to know when they have this client come

14:42

in they might know the legal side and

14:43

you said what's happening what to do

14:45

but what do you recommend that we tell

14:47

our clients you know who to report it to

14:49

apart from the police or along with the

14:51

police and attorney general is there

14:53

other other groups

14:57

well if it's a if it's an

14:58

anti-soliciting violation

15:01

in the communities that have those

15:02

ordinances you would report that to the

15:05

local

15:06

police department they have jurisdiction

15:08

to enforce a city ordinance if it's a

15:11

A situation where the contractors uh for

15:14

example

15:15

going to or offering to waive the

15:16

The deductible on a say a roofing claim that

15:20

gets reported either to the national

15:22

insurance crime bureau

15:24

to the texas department of insurance

15:26

fraud unit or to the texas attorney

15:28

general uh consumer protection division

15:30

all those low uh

15:32

entities uh they can either call uh

15:35

an 800 number and report that or they

15:38

can go online to those organizations and

15:41

report those allegations

15:43

to them also the north texas roofing

15:45

contractors association has just

15:48

initiated a uh a project

15:51

where they've established a

15:53

website for consumers

15:56

and other contractors to report

15:58

contractors that are you're trying to

16:01

waive deductibles so they've they've

16:04

taken the the initiative to be part of

16:06

the solution and then those tips will

16:09

come to the nicb we'll investigate those

16:12

and if they rise to a level uh where

16:14

there's potential criminality then we'll

16:17

prepare a case and refer that to the

16:19

attorney general

16:22

guess i follow up on that then because

16:23

i'm thinking of an attorney's mind here

16:25

you know you're chasing sometimes you

16:27

know a certain company or individual

16:29

uh

16:30

i'll ask a couple of questions but the

16:31

first one yes i want to ask you can

16:33

where can an attorney go to start

16:35

looking in to see if this opponent or

16:37

this contractor or this person has come

16:39

around trying to prey on the client has

16:42

done this somewhere else around the

16:43

state because we know they move around

16:45

where would you recommend that we go and

16:46

look for that and research those issues

16:50

well it's not only for the attorney but

16:52

for the attorney's client or for any

16:54

consumer you want to check

16:57

available databases a simple google

17:00

search may approve uh or provide a lot

17:03

of information about somebody that's

17:05

outscanning the better business bureau

17:07

we have relationships with those with

17:09

that those entities throughout the state

17:12

um angie's list and the good contractors

17:15

list places like that you can query

17:17

those contractors to see if there's any

17:19

adverse reporting

17:21

you can go to the

17:23

north texas roofing contractors

17:25

association and rcat the roofing

17:28

contractors association of texas you can

17:31

actually put in the name of those

17:33

contractors and see if they  know if

17:36

they have standing with those

17:37

organizations because even though we

17:40

failed to accomplish licensing for

17:42

roofing contractors or contractors in

17:45

general in texas

17:47

those organizations are taking it upon

17:49

themselves to establish

17:51

licensing credentialing for their

17:54

membership and it's very stringent very

17:58

very strictly controlled requires uh in

18:01

proof of insurance for workers

18:03

compensation general liability and these

18:06

are all things that protect the consumer

18:08

as well

18:09

so you can go to those

18:11

sites and check those uh

18:14

contractors out through them and

18:16

if you're having problems you can pick

18:18

up the phone and call them and they will

18:19

gladly

18:20

attention as part of that vetting

18:22

process before you hire a contractor so

18:25

there's lots of sources out there uh you

18:28

know amy would probably

18:29

agree with me but you know the attorney

18:32

general or the department of insurance

18:34

fraud unit or nicb we're not able to

18:37

share our investigative files with with

18:40

the public

18:42

that was going to be my other question

18:44

about that the other free discovery that

18:45

i can get is in the mindset

18:47

and i guess associated with that issue

18:49

that i think you've kind of made obvious

18:51

here and i'm assuming it's true that

18:53

these folks these

18:55

companies these scammers they seem to be

18:57

moving around the state but maybe the

18:58

nation right i mean they're not you know

19:00

a locality or other places and maybe

19:03

because if you wanted to look at these

19:04

databases in case they're one of those

19:06

that just moved down from the north to

19:07

the south or from another state am i

19:09

correct in thinking that

19:11

that's common

19:12

yes it is very common

19:14

and uh you know that's the unique thing

19:17

about the national insurance crime

19:18

bureau we've been in existence for over

19:20

112 years so we've been doing

19:24

this a very long time as an institution

19:27

and part of our uh

19:29

our success and our value is that we're

19:32

able to look and see

19:34

uh from a satellite viewpoint you know

19:37

the scammers and the and the criminal

19:39

organizations that are operating within

19:41

the united states and we see that

19:44

transient movement of those

19:46

organizations from state to state

19:48

community to community and it gives us

19:50

the opportunity to alert the insurance

19:53

industry as well as our federal state

19:55

and local law enforcement partners and

19:57

give them some you know strategic

19:59

outlook as to what's happening and we

20:02

track that very very closely and you

20:04

know you just have to show up

20:06

at a disaster site and just look around

20:11

look at the license plates on the

20:13

on the contractor vehicles and you'll

20:16

see out of state plates

20:18

you know you'll see

20:19

it's very obvious that people come

20:21

in from all over the country when when

20:24

there's an opportunity

20:26

a lot of it is uh

20:28

these people show up with good

20:31

intentions they're there to help but

20:33

there's also a

20:35

segment that shows up and they're

20:37

looking to to cash in at the expense of

20:41

others

20:42

so when we had the tornadoes in wiley um

20:45

a couple years ago that one that

20:46

happened right at christmas time i know

20:48

that we had some people that came in

20:50

from way up north wisconsin michigan

20:52

somewhere up there bought a brand new

20:55

truck

20:55

had paper plates on it

20:57

got a phone number a local number and

20:59

then put a magnet on the side of the

21:01

truck that was a local phone number but

21:02

they were nowhere near local and they

21:04

took all kinds of money and cash and

21:06

insurance checks and then just flat

21:08

disappeared and i know we're kind of

21:10

jumping ahead maybe to red flags but

21:13

um if a truck is wrapped they've spent

21:15

some money and they're a company that's

21:16

at least local

21:18

um but a magnetic sign on the side of a

21:20

truck and a paper plate on the back of

21:21

one should be some kind of a red flag

21:26

absolutely and i just want to know as

21:28

far as another resource to check out um

21:30

if you are a member and i think it's

21:31

even open to non-members but aarp has a

21:34

fraud watch network

21:36

and they have a website and telephone

21:37

number that you can get into

21:40

um and get some more information about

21:42

some companies especially the ones on

21:43

the watch list

21:45

um

21:46

and just to quickly because we are

21:47

dealing with um survivors from ida and

21:51

some of those

21:52

some of those displaced from ida and

21:53

some survivors from nicholas um

21:56

be careful out there for fake fema

21:59

inspectors

22:00

that's a big thing that you see um

22:04

or a lot of times a lot of scammers will

22:06

promise to fill out

22:08

applications or promises of government

22:10

grants or other funding to prepare your

22:12

house for a very small application fee

22:15

run away do not do that fema will never

22:17

charge you anything and any fema

22:19

inspector will have credentials and

22:22

like mr lohmann said

22:25

challenge him on that saying let me see

22:27

your credentials let me see this let me

22:28

see that because

22:31

a good contractor someone who's on the

22:33

level is going to show you that

22:35

or if he doesn't have that on him right

22:37

now he's not going to try to

22:39

high pressure you into a sale or signing

22:41

something

22:42

um

22:43

so that kind of goes into something i

22:45

did want to

22:46

bring up and amy brought up earlier just

22:48

red flags what are some just

22:50

pretty obvious things that if comes up

22:52

if when you're talking to one of these

22:53

contractors run

22:56

well

22:57

amy brought up a couple of them uh if

23:00

they knocked on your door

23:01

uh they solicited that you're soliciting

23:04

your business you didn't ask for it you

23:06

should reject it

23:08

if they don't have a solicitor's permit

23:10

and that's required by your municipality

23:12

your jurisdiction uh you know turn them

23:14

away close the door

23:16

uh paper plates magnetic signs uh as we

23:20

refer to some of these uh contractors uh

23:23

and even in the roofing industry

23:25

legit contractors will refer to them as

23:28

you know two chucks in a truck

23:30

if they if they have the appearance of

23:33

being transient right they don't belong

23:36

um

23:36

 you really want to be vigilant and

23:39

challenge those people you know i say

23:42

this all the time

23:43

that roof

23:45

protects the most important things in

23:47

your life your family your possessions

23:50

and you want to be very careful and

23:52

vigilant on who you permit to do

23:56

that type of work um

23:58

you know

23:59

work with your local

24:02

building inspectors and your local

24:04

communities uh you know

24:07

you never know about these people they

24:08

could be wanted they could have criminal

24:10

histories they could be sex offenders

24:13

you just don't know and those are not

24:15

the people that you want on your roof or

24:18

in your home okay and uh but as far as

24:21

red flags go those are some of the

24:23

things if you know ask him for

24:26

information and if you can't verify

24:29

the address or the phone number or

24:32

the email address that they give you 

24:34

know those are all things that should

24:36

tip your scales to walking away from

24:39

uh you know

24:41

any type of relationship or contract if

24:44

they pressure you that's another tactic

24:46

they'll pressure you to sign on the

24:48

dotted line don't do it

24:50

uh if if you have any questions at all

24:52

you should walk away

24:54

and give yourself time to think contact

24:58

uh either family members they trust or

25:00

the insurance industry and get some

25:02

advice

25:06

absolutely and um

25:09

i think you stood out earlier asking for

25:11

all the money up front is kind of a red

25:13

flag most contractors don't do that

25:17

at least they don't

25:19

yeah so

25:20

just

25:21

that's usually a big red flag too

25:24

um i know you said that

25:26

if you do find yourself scammed to file

25:27

a police report um what kind of records

25:30

should someone have um what should they

25:32

like keep as far as um

25:36

helping the

25:37

police be able to track these people

25:38

down

25:40

well obviously any document that the

25:43

that the contractor gave you or provided

25:46

you would be important the documentary

25:49

evidence

25:50

uh of their involvement but

25:53

you know

25:54

if if you haven't you know done your due

25:57

diligence and you know

25:59

wrote down the uh the description of

26:01

their vehicle and the license plate and

26:04

the name of the company uh maybe the

26:06

website or whatever it is that they

26:07

provided you you know it very easily

26:12

you know

26:13

they could get away with it i mean we've

26:15

seen this time and time again

26:17

where they'll show up they'll target uh

26:20

you know the disenfranchised

26:22

uh poorer communities the elderly uh

26:25

they'll take the money and then they

26:26

take off and sadly

26:29

you know people are trusting they want

26:31

to believe that uh they're truly there

26:33

to help and you know when you discover

26:36

that you've been taken unless you've

26:38

really got some good information on who

26:40

they are you know they're in the wind

26:43

and it's very difficult to identify them

26:45

let alone you know find them and

26:47

prosecute

26:52

basically be suspicious

26:54

until the work's complete

26:57

you know you 

26:58

Hate, hate to recommend to people

27:01

to be

27:01

you know so suspicious of

27:04

everybody you encounter

27:06

but

27:07

maybe it's just

27:08

43 years in the business uh

27:11

i

27:12

there's very few people i trust and i

27:15

wish more consumers would

27:17

would have more of a

27:19

Jaundiced eye  i do

27:21

you know i hate to see people taking

27:22

advantage of it just breaks your heart

27:25

because again in my experience it's the

27:27

people that least can afford it

27:29

are the ones that are victimized so yeah

27:32

i wish they would be more suspicious

27:34

uh and not as trusting

27:37

well and on topics since we're talking

27:38

about disasters the problem we really

27:40

run into here is that they're desperate

27:42

at this point

27:44

um you know everyone in their

27:46

neighborhood has damage to their house

27:48

or

27:49

during the uri storm everyone had

27:52

frozen pipes and you know so you were

27:54

desperate for anybody who could say oh i

27:56

can be there within the next x amount of

27:59

time

28:00

so you were willing to sacrifice some of

28:02

that

28:02

under a normal circumstance when you

28:04

might have

28:05

been a little more diligent

28:07

right now all you could think about is a

28:09

roof over your head

28:12

amy you pick up a great point because

28:14

you are desperate you you obviously you

28:17

if you have a hole in your roof uh you

28:19

know because of the hail

28:21

and you you don't have the means uh

28:24

to get tarp on there to protect the

28:26

damage from getting worse and somebody

28:28

shows up and says yeah i can do that for

28:30

you

28:31

yeah you you tend to be you know out of

28:34

desperation uh to do your part to

28:36

protect the you know the laws from

28:38

getting worse to do that and listen they

28:41

know that they're preying upon those

28:44

opportunities and vulnerabilities and

28:46

they're going to exploit them

28:48

not all of them again the vast majority

28:50

are good hard-working people and

28:52

business owners and they do want to do

28:55

what's right but

28:57

you have to be aware that there are others

28:59

out there that they're predatory they're

29:01

just looking for an opportunity

29:03

to exploit and uh to steal from people

29:09

you know recently the state bar actually

29:11

prosecuted an attorney and i think it

29:13

was the north texas area maybe dallas

29:15

fort worth area after a hail storm

29:18

and he had an office down here in the

29:19

valley too but what this guy was doing

29:21

is these roofers were going around you

29:23

know getting some contracts maybe

29:24

legitimately i don't know otherwise but

29:27

in those documents they would sign up

29:29

as clients of this attorney without

29:31

knowing that they were setting up as an

29:32

attorney and they prosecuted him at the

29:34

federal level barbarity i think he's

29:36

serving time when we took his license or

29:38

the state market uh have you heard about

29:41

those incidents too where there's a

29:42

barrier tree going on the lawyers come

29:44

in also and try to pick up some clients

29:46

yes that was very prevalent down in

29:50

the valley

29:51

is where it started and then it uh it

29:54

migrated up into

29:56

the san antonio area and then eventually

29:58

houston and dallas fort worth but yes

30:00

i'm very familiar with that uh

30:03

and you know we had lots of complaints

30:05

from insurance consumers has you

30:08

know basically told us

30:10

we didn't

30:11

sign up for this we didn't know about

30:13

this

30:13

but yet uh you know

30:16

they they quickly found out that

30:19

when they got noticed from their

30:20

insurance company no you're you have an

30:23

attorney we can't even talk to you

30:25

uh so yes that's that was very prevalent

30:28

and and it's greed if they're they're

30:30

chasing the money it's an opportunity to

30:34

to exploit people uh and the and the

30:37

hailstorm or the catastrophe loss is is

30:41

the mechanism to which they can do that

30:45

can you talk the same thing happens with

30:46

adjusters and i didn't even know what an

30:49

adjuster was and what their role was

30:51

until i started with the job where i

30:53

worked with you fred can you explain a

30:55

little bit about what an adjuster does

30:57

and why you would or wouldn't need one

30:59

involved in some kind of a contractor

31:01

situation

31:03

well you know most

31:05

all insurance companies especially

31:07

property casualty insurance companies

31:09

that are dealing with auto and homeowner

31:11

losses you know they have a

31:14

staff of professionals known as claim

31:16

adjusters

31:18

Or claim representatives it depends what

31:21

they refer to

31:23

how they refer to them within those

31:24

companies but it's their responsibility

31:28

to receive the first report or loss from

31:30

their insurance their policyholders if

31:33

they've suffered a loss and then they

31:35

actually investigate the claim they

31:38

determine if there's a liability and if

31:40

they establish that there's liability uh

31:43

it's a legitimate loss then they go

31:45

about the process of adjusting the loss

31:47

that's determining uh the scope and the

31:50

value and what it's going to take to put

31:54

that property back into the condition it

31:56

was in uh prior to the time of the loss

31:59

it has to go back to the

32:01

to that condition that it was in prior

32:03

to the loss and it's their

32:05

responsibility through the insurance uh

32:08

claim adjusting process and the

32:10

company's internal best practices to do

32:12

that and essentially what it comes down

32:14

to is insurance companies

32:17

uh they're obligated under the

32:19

policy to pay the claims that they owe

32:22

and not pay the claims that they don't

32:24

know

32:25

so

32:26

it all comes down to whether there's

32:29

liability and there's coverage and

32:31

that's another part of the process is

32:33

that claim representative is going to

32:35

determine if there's coverage for that

32:38

damage or that claim loss and that's all

32:41

part of that that their responsibility

32:43

and their process

32:45

and so they're very

32:46

uh very astute uh they're trained

32:50

and knowledgeable in the

32:52

adjusting process

32:54

and have a wealth of information many of

32:57

them doing this a long time and so if

32:59

you have questions about that the

33:01

consumer or even their attorney can

33:03

always talk to the uh

33:05

the claim representative and uh you know

33:08

and get their questions answered

33:15

thank you for that um

33:17

and just another thing i know what

33:19

helped me

33:20

when uri

33:21

came

33:22

it was very nice because since i had

33:24

gone through harvey i  kept my list

33:26

of contractors from harvey so it was

33:28

very easy to say no thank you i already

33:30

have a plumber no thank you already have

33:32

a contractor

33:33

so i know this sounds like a lot of work

33:36

but sometimes just doing some research

33:38

and finding out where your local

33:39

contractors are and the ones that are

33:41

legitimate the ones that are in the area

33:43

so as amy said pull up with paper plates

33:46

and a magnetic sticker you know they're

33:48

not from the area

33:50

um

33:52

and as i say an ounce of prevention is

33:53

worth a pound of cure

33:55

sometimes just doing your homework

33:56

before can save you

33:59

having to hire one of us

34:02

to find a scam contractor well that's excellent

34:03

advice

34:05

uh you know i myself i've got a a book

34:09

and i've got

34:10

my plumbers and my electricians

34:13

my roofing contractors  I have a list

34:16

of the people that i would go to

34:19

whenever i have a problem with either my

34:21

home or you know one of our rental

34:23

properties uh i i use the same people i

34:26

know them i trust them they've been

34:28

vetted

34:29

uh that you know they're responsive

34:32

uh they're professional and so i don't

34:35

have these issues

34:36

you know god forbid when we have losses

34:39

i have people i can go to and i can

34:41

trust to come out and to do the job and

34:44

to do it correctly uh and not take

34:46

advantage of me so i would encourage

34:49

everyone

34:50

uh to to establish that list that's the

34:53

best time to do it is when you don't

34:55

need them don't wait till it's crunched

34:58

don't wait until you've had a

35:00

catastrophic loss a hurricane uh or a

35:04

terrible hail storm

35:05

or

35:06

tornado damage you know then you're

35:08

desperate and

35:10

when you're desperate you're vulnerable

35:15

absolutely

35:17

um did anyone else have any other

35:19

questions

35:21

i have one

35:22

so

35:24

um if you have a loss and your claims

35:26

agent says that your loss is worth ten

35:27

thousand dollars and then you have

35:28

someone come out and give you an

35:30

estimate for fixing it and their

35:32

estimate is 17 000

35:34

what do you do with that discrepancy how

35:36

do you move forward if your insurance

35:38

company tells you one number and the guy

35:40

who wants to come out and fix it who you

35:42

trust

35:43

um tells you a different number what do

35:45

you do then

35:46

well we always

35:47

you know uh as national insurance crime

35:49

bureau and even most of your insurance

35:51

companies will recommend that you get

35:54

three estimates from three from three

35:56

reputable contractors and see where

35:59

those estimates fall in relationship to

36:02

the estimate that was provided by

36:05

the insurance company and of course if

36:07

you if you 

36:10

reach a point where you're at an

36:11

impasse

36:13

the consumer is able to retain the

36:15

services of an independent adjuster to

36:18

represent them

36:20

the consumer of insurance uh in

36:23

negotiations and settling the claim with

36:25

their insurance company

36:27

um and there's other remedies

36:30

such as uh you know um

36:32

uh

36:33

they could go to mediation uh and and

36:36

and try to resolve the differences in

36:40

what the insurance company's offering or

36:43

believes the claim value is as opposed

36:45

to you know what your public

36:47

adjuster or your contractor

36:50

has there are ways to

36:52

to basically meet in the middle and get

36:54

the get the claims settled where you

36:56

know where both parties

36:58

uh you know can agree uh with what the

37:01

decision is but you know if you reach

37:04

those situations where there's an

37:05

impasse you do have opportunities uh and

37:09

alternatives to deal with that either

37:11

the public adjuster we even you know

37:13

retaining the services of an attorney to

37:16

represent you in those uh in those

37:18

particular instances

37:20

you know i remember back in the day when

37:22

we were all um

37:24

trying to find that better deal because

37:26

of the deductible issue and it was

37:27

allowed back then

37:29

you never wanted your insurance adjuster

37:32

and your contractor to be there

37:33

evaluating it at the same time because

37:35

you kind of didn't want the guy to know

37:36

what your insurance company was going to

37:37

give you in a check

37:39

is that maybe um something that we need

37:42

to think about differently and have

37:43

those two out there at the same time to

37:44

talk is that a good idea or a bad idea

37:47

 I don't think it's a bad idea amy um

37:51

for example uh again i go back to the

37:54

contractors i use and i trust

37:57

uh

37:58

i

37:59

i got the estimate from the insurance

38:00

companies for the properties that we

38:02

suffered losses on i turned right around

38:05

and i gave those estimates to my uh to

38:07

my trusted roofing contractor then i

38:10

have nothing to fear i have nothing to

38:12

hide this is what my insurance company

38:14

is allowing and you know here you go and

38:19

in every case

38:21

what my contractor came back to me with

38:24

in terms of the scope uh the scale and

38:27

the cost of the repairs

38:30

we made it we got it done for what

38:32

the insurance company you know uh came

38:35

up with in terms of the estimate and you

38:37

know deal with trusted uh insurance

38:40

companies as well so

38:42

you know i listen

38:44

if you're trying to beat the system then

38:46

obviously you don't want to you don't

38:48

want to do that right but if you're if

38:51

you're if you're just trying to play by

38:53

the rules

38:54

and get your repairs

38:57

for your losses taken care of uh quickly

39:01

and done the right way

39:03

and i say yeah i

39:04

i have no problem sharing that

39:06

information with my contractor because i

39:09

trust my contractor yeah put all your

39:12

cards on the table right yeah you know

39:14

he's never let me down yet

39:16

and

39:17

and he knows what i do for a living so

39:21

i

39:21

i don't think i'll have an issue with

39:23

that i think you're probably right um

39:25

the only other thing that i wanted to

39:27

point out just in terms of consumers is

39:29

it is on the consumer to make sure that

39:32

if the insurance company said we're

39:34

going to replace a b c d and e

39:36

that your roofer replaces a b c d and e

39:40

or that your contractor when they're you

39:42

know fixing pipes and whatever they

39:44

don't cut a corner because it is your

39:45

responsibility to make sure that

39:48

what

39:49

the insurance company is paying for your

39:51

contractor is doing

39:53

um that's absolutely correct you have to

39:56

be engaged

39:59

uh amy and uh

40:01

and fred i think it's obvious the people

40:03

that are listening and they didn't know

40:04

this that you all have worked together

40:05

in the past i'm sure

40:07

uh and amy you were a prosecutor from

40:09

what i understand right because you

40:11

mean you're previous okay

40:13

i was i prosecuted for insurance fraud

40:16

uh okay good to know you by the way good

40:18

to know i'll call you my friend uh

40:20

so and she was a good one

40:22

it sounds like it because here you are

40:24

fred and how is it that you use fred in

40:26

those criminal prosecutions and then

40:27

i'll ask a question on the civil side

40:30

um we

40:31

we worked together with um

40:35

um prosecution um like big schemes we

40:39

had investigators on the texas

40:41

department of insurance fraud unit and

40:43

they had

40:44

investigators on their side they could

40:46

work up a case and then they would turn

40:48

that case over to our unit and then that

40:50

unit would pass it along to us as

40:52

prosecutors so we kind of

40:54

we got to cases from different areas but

40:56

a lot of the cases that we ended up

40:58

prosecuting came through partners

40:59

through the national

41:01

insurance crime bureau that's

41:03

interesting and have you i'm sure you

41:04

probably have testified a good deal mr

41:06

lohmann

41:07

in court yes yes certainly have not only

41:10

in my law enforcement career but uh

41:13

here at nicb and also as an investigator

41:16

with the insurance industry uh who i

41:18

worked for after i first retired from

41:21

law enforcement so

41:23

um it's it was a good uh collaborative

41:26

effort uh and uh

41:28

you know operating arrangement to the

41:30

point that nicb trained uh almost all of

41:34

the

41:34

investigators at the department of

41:36

insurance fraud unit they all received

41:38

training on uh what we referred to as

41:41

roofing structures 101. so

41:44

my agents and and

41:45

their investigators were trained they

41:48

actually went up on the roofs they

41:49

learned the parts of the roof and uh

41:52

knew what to do so

41:54

it was uh it was a great you know great

41:56

collaborative effort

41:58

yeah let me tell you one thing you're

41:59

the kind of witness that uh if i go to

42:02

court i you hope you're on my side

42:04

because to cross you i mean makes me

42:06

look bad i don't want to do that

42:09

um

42:10

you just got to speak the truth it's

42:11

very real easy when you do that you know

42:14

as for an attorney that's a gray area no

42:16

i'm just kidding yeah you're right about

42:17

that that's what i told my clients if

42:18

you have the truth the truth is

42:20

consistent you know if you lie it's not

42:22

and so it's always helpful but you're

42:23

right about that that's a good way to

42:24

say it

42:25

and so let me ask you so for the civil

42:27

practitioner that is having to go

42:29

through this process maybe helping in a

42:30

pro bono case and they're a little

42:32

confused what's going on can they reach

42:34

out to an nicb or to somebody

42:36

to help them kind of sort through these

42:38

matters and see if they're going the

42:39

right route or not

42:41

i'll help anybody that that calls for

42:43

help

42:45

absolutely

42:46

he just can't give any specific

42:47

information on a specific active

42:48

investigation there you go

42:51

that's that sounds well that's a

42:52

prosecutor right there

42:54

that was definitely one of the things

42:55

that i will kind of give everyone a

42:57

caveat about is that and i don't know if

42:59

fred is the one that started these

43:00

meetings but we used to have meetings

43:01

where

43:02

all the different

43:04

insurance agencies and their

43:05

investigators kind of came together

43:07

the sharing of information um was

43:10

revolutionary in terms of oh my gosh we

43:12

have that happening with us too oh we

43:14

have three or four cases with that same

43:16

guy

43:17

within the investigation world and

43:19

within the law enforcement community

43:21

they do share information

43:23

um and it was amazing how

43:25

you know four or five different

43:26

insurance companies were coming across

43:28

the same scam that showed up on my desk

43:30

really

43:31

yeah so there is talk it's good talk

43:33

that sounds interesting i think you know

43:35

you think about it insurance companies

43:37

have money they're just like banks

43:39

so the crooks just don't target one

43:41

insurance company

43:43

all of them

43:46

yeah i looked at i was looking at your

43:47

website uh it's for folks out there to

43:49

want to look at it's

43:52

nicb.org there's actually even a

43:54

specific section on this sas reference

43:57

for the fight prevention and theft

43:58

pretty detailed

44:00

is your contact information somewhere on

44:01

that website if people want to get a

44:03

hold of you yes sir it is it's under the

44:05

southwest region but

44:07

they can eat they can contact me at f

44:09

lohmann

44:11

at

44:11

nicb.org

44:13

uh or phone number eight eight eight two

44:15

four one eight one two seven

44:19

this is great lohmann that's l

44:25

i'm sure people are writing that down i

44:26

want to give you a call about this this

44:28

is really great information

44:32

are those i want to use you as a witness

44:34

and those that if they see you they're

44:35

going to say quickly

44:37

i'd have to check with the bosses on

44:39

that but uh you know if i'm subpoenaed

44:43

well i'll push it up the

44:44

headquarters and we'll see what they say

44:49

let me tell you i want to represent you

44:51

as your agent when it comes to expert

44:52

testimony telling you i want to cut of

44:54

that because you're going to definitely

44:55

have people calling you i mean just

44:56

consider because it is you know it's an

44:58

unfortunate circumstance that you know

45:00

we have this organization network of our

45:02

own legal aid because of the constant

45:04

presence of disastrous natural disasters

45:07

and now even man-made ones you know when

45:09

the shooting happens or some other ones

45:10

and then it's pandemic so within legal

45:13

services there's a subset of a specialty

45:15

for this i can imagine throughout

45:17

industries and other places the same

45:18

thing is happening so these uh fraud you

45:21

know issues are unfortunately quite

45:23

common on chairman

45:25

well you know nicb is a non-profit

45:28

organization so we're in this for the

45:30

right reasons we want to do right by the

45:33

insurance industry our federal state and

45:35

local law enforcement partners in the

45:37

american public and your organization

45:40

does the same thing you're in it for the

45:42

right reasons you're trying to help

45:43

people and so you know i i like that and

45:47

anything i can do to help organizations

45:49

like yours uh you know I’m all in

45:53

because again it's the people that can

45:55

least afford to be victimized seem to be

45:58

the ones that are always victimized

46:02

yeah that's something i think you

46:03

probably hear

46:04

uh throughout most of our podcast that

46:06

that our clientele or uh or our low

46:10

income poverty population

46:12

is the one that seems to be preyed upon

46:14

in many ways not just on these issues

46:15

but you know on many other matters uh i

46:17

mean

46:18

these like water filtration services you

46:20

know uh these repairs of the vehicles

46:23

all these things that happen out there

46:25

solar panels so gosh yeah solar panels

46:29

um

46:30

i noticed on your website too that you

46:32

have classes you provided are they for

46:34

law enforcement only or do you provide

46:36

some courses for other industries or

46:39

well we do

46:40

we do offer what we call fraud smart and

46:43

Nicb classes

46:45

that are tailored for the insurance

46:47

industry so

46:48

uh there for the claims representatives

46:50

to alert them and to train them on what

46:52

to look at as they process claims to

46:55

identify

46:56

you know potential suspicious claims

46:59

involving insurance fraud allegations we

47:02

also do that for federal state and local

47:04

law enforcement we provide a separate

47:07

site for law enforcement and then we do

47:10

you know in-person delivery of this

47:12

training uh to our insurance industry

47:15

and law enforcement partners but you

47:17

know even people like myself within the

47:20

organization you know i talk to civic

47:22

groups and other organizations

47:24

we just do that to try and get the word

47:26

out because we we recognize that the

47:29

educated consumer that's your best

47:31

defense against this

47:33

so we're you know we're we are not at

47:36

all opposed to speaking to organizations

47:40

to enlighten them

47:41

on what they can do to prevent this type

47:44

of activity from happening

47:46

have you seen some of this activity go

47:49

online if you will on the internet

47:52

through solicitation by email or website

47:54

or something like that

47:56

i i have not not yet

47:59

but you know there's always a first but

48:00

no i have not yet uh

48:02

you know observed any of that online

48:06

sorry to say it's only a matter of time

48:08

i mean just the way our clients are

48:09

being preyed upon nowadays unfortunate

48:11

in many ways

48:12

there you go is it well like texas if

48:14

you don't like the wet the weather wait

48:16

a minute well if you're looking for the

48:19

next scam just wait a minute it's coming

48:22

yeah i think you're right about that

48:24

it's september right now i'm in south

48:26

texas and i think we started with fall

48:27

end up with summer in one day right

48:29

definitely

48:34

someone scanning facebook for pictures

48:36

of oh no our house is damaged and then

48:39

hitting those ugh

48:42

oh great there's going to be some way to

48:43

figure that one out in their balloon

48:45

exactly only a matter of time

48:47

just let your imagination run wild

48:50

they'll figure something out

48:52

i feel like we beat up on roofers on a

48:54

regular basis so i kind of want to share

48:56

the wealth if there's one more question

48:57

i'm trying to think of what other

48:58

disasters i've come across and one of

49:01

the big ones is during hurricanes and

49:03

flooding like during harvey

49:05

the reselling of cars that had been

49:06

flooded

49:08

how how does that happen how can i mean

49:11

if i'm looking to buy a used car which

49:13

we all know the used car market right

49:14

now is

49:15

way low in inventory how can i be sure

49:18

that none of those cars are coming from

49:20

damage with flood from ida is there a

49:22

way to well

49:23

well one of the best ways is you can go

49:25

to the nicb website www.nicb

49:30

and go to vin check

49:32

okay

49:33

then check and you can put the vehicle

49:35

identification number of the vehicle

49:38

you're inquiring upon into the check and

49:41

if that vehicle is stolen or if that

49:43

vehicle has been branded as a total loss

49:47

flood damaged vehicle it will be

49:50

reflected

49:51

in ven check now there is a

49:54

there's a caveat to that

49:56

so if the vehicle was not processed by

49:59

an insurance company let's say it was a

50:01

a vehicle that only had liability

50:03

insurance

50:05

as required by you know

50:07

various states

50:09

uh those vehicles

50:10

sadly they can they can go right through

50:12

the cracks so if you had a vehicle that

50:14

did not have comprehensive collision

50:17

coverage things of that nature wasn't

50:19

processed by the insurance industry and

50:22

there's one of their salvage companies

50:23

then very likely that vehicle uh could

50:26

be sold to unsuspecting consumers um

50:31

you know after it was flooded uh

50:34

you know back in katrina we processed

50:37

physically

50:38

by hand

50:39

over 375 000 flood damage vehicles with

50:43

our front our federal state and local

50:45

partners you know that was back when you

50:48

you had to

50:49

physically verify the the public then

50:52

the federal safety sticker and if you

50:54

had trouble you had to go to

50:55

confidential numbers to identify it but

50:57

every one of those vehicles from katrina

51:00

went into what nicb established as the

51:03

the national insurance cri bureau flood

51:06

dated

51:07

flood database okay and from that it's

51:10

grown into ven check so that's one of

51:12

the best ways to do it you can also run

51:14

a carfax

51:16

report there's other companies out there

51:19

that provide these vehicle reporting um

51:23

reports on on vehicles that you can run

51:25

and you got to do your due diligence

51:27

because

51:28

you know they can clean these cars up

51:31

uh they can get them running and then

51:33

sell them to an unsuspecting consumer

51:36

and the thing about it is at some point

51:39

there's going to be

51:41

mechanical and electrical problems with

51:43

those cars

51:45

if you look at a modern day automobile

51:47

it's nothing more than a computer uh

51:50

with four wheels so

51:52

you got to be real careful and vigilant

51:54

about that

51:55

fred how much does it cost to do a

51:57

check through the nicb website

52:00

it's free there's no no cost to

52:02

consumers

52:04

i was looking at the website you've got

52:05

like

52:06

12 15 different sources that you go and

52:08

look at from those vins that's

52:10

amazing a resource and i also found

52:12

something interesting i wanted to ask

52:13

you about for example

52:15

what is a staged auto accident

52:18

apparently you all talk about those and

52:20

i want to hear about them not that i'm

52:22

going to do one of those i'm wondering

52:23

if i've been a victim of them

52:25

well i'll i'll just give you an example

52:28

uh you know

52:30

you know you have a uh

52:32

well let's let's use a senior citizen

52:34

that's at the walmart and they just went

52:36

up there to do some grocery uh shopping

52:38

and they're in their vehicle and they're

52:40

about to back out right to go home

52:43

and

52:44

there's a car behind him and the car is

52:46

waving come on out come on out and of

52:49

course they put it in reverse and they

52:51

start to come out and that car

52:52

accelerates and runs into him right

52:56

and so

52:57

just so happens there's a witness oh

53:00

yeah that

53:01

that lady she just backed right into

53:03

that car when he when he was trying to

53:05

go past her right and now all of a

53:08

sudden even though it's a low impact uh

53:10

collision right

53:12

very low g

53:13

involved uh they got all kinds of back

53:16

and neck problems right and they're

53:18

going to a chiropractor they've got an

53:20

attorney representing them and

53:22

you know typically maybe that uh that

53:25

senior citizens got pretty good

53:27

insurance high high coverage limits and

53:30

and they're in it for the cash right so

53:33

they staged that accident it was

53:34

intentionally done

53:36

uh another example we just finished a

53:39

case uh you can you can google it but it

53:41

was uh targeting 18 wheelers in the new

53:44

orleans area right so these trucks were

53:47

leaving a refrigerated area of new

53:50

orleans

53:51

high high policy limits right commercial

53:54

trucks and they would staged accidents

53:56

where they would slam on their brakes

53:58

let the truck run into the back of them

54:00

and just so happens there's like five

54:02

six people in the car they're all hurt

54:05

they're all going to the same attorney

54:07

they all go to the same medical provider

54:09

for treatment and and they're getting

54:12

paid just

54:13

you know

54:15

left and right the money's just pouring

54:17

out the word gets out

54:19

now you have an epidemic of this stuff

54:21

right and it was in the millions of

54:23

dollars

54:25

and it got so bad that when we had a

54:28

cooperating witness that was initially

54:30

part of it and that person

54:32

uh gave us information they found out

54:35

about it and they some of the other

54:37

participants killed them

54:41

so

54:42

you know this is big money this is in

54:44

the millions of dollars uh

54:46

and you know that's the extreme of what

54:49

happens but it's intentionally caused

54:52

accidents it's either they actually do

54:54

the accidents or they'll create

54:56

accidents on paper

54:58

where you you'll have two parties

55:00

collaborate they don't really own the

55:02

vehicles there's they're salvage

55:03

vehicles they just have a title but

55:06

let's face it you can go right online

55:08

uh or pick up the phone and get

55:10

insurance policies real quick now once

55:12

you got the policy you have the means uh

55:15

to be able to file a claim

55:17

right

55:18

so it's very very common staged

55:20

accidents

55:22

the reason i ask that is because our

55:23

audience you know the pro bono attorneys

55:26

who are not doing these kind of stage

55:28

cases especially for the pro bono work

55:30

are going to be consumers may be personal

55:32

injuries they might hear about these

55:33

situations it'd be good for them to know

55:35

that there's a place now you can

55:36

probably go to and find

55:38

out it's happening because i do remember

55:40

now that you told me the louisiana

55:41

incident i don't know where in the

55:43

nation it was where like three or four

55:45

cars come up around somebody you know

55:47

and then why would you stand on the

55:48

brakes in front and they had the person

55:50

in the middle right and then they'd be

55:51

uh hit from behind and they couldn't go

55:54

to the sides because they were

55:56

cornered in i guess and the next thing

55:57

you know everybody was hurt and after a

55:59

while people started getting like

56:01

seriously hurt and they reported when

56:03

with the scammers each other because

56:04

they were seriously being injured and

56:06

couldn't believe the amount of planning

56:08

and time that it took to get that kind

56:10

of problem

56:12

well again

56:13

there's a lot of money sometimes uh

56:16

that's on the table uh with these staged

56:18

accidents especially when you're dealing

56:20

with commercial automobile policies

56:26

we're almost at the five minute mark i

56:27

don't know if there's anything else you

56:28

all want to ask amy or belinda or mr

56:30

lohmann wants to kind of give us here at

56:32

the end

56:38

any other sound stage advice you want to

56:40

give us machine learning we probably

56:41

haven't covered yet about not only

56:42

contractor quite better what a homeowner

56:43

can do when these disasters hit

56:49

you know you can go to the nicb website

56:51

we have uh we have consumer information

56:55

bulletins and

56:56

pdfs available for download and it gives

56:59

a lot of great advice that you can refer

57:02

to i suggest you go there print them

57:04

off and just keep them handy along with

57:07

that list of good contractors to to use

57:11

if and when

57:12

and god forbid you have a loss

57:16

or save fred's cell phone number and

57:17

call him and ask him for his list

57:20

exactly

57:22

exactly

57:23

you know we uh when these disasters hit

57:26

we do have disaster uh recovery centers

57:28

um drcs are called and it might be good

57:30

to have this information there for them

57:32

for the consumers i mean the last thing

57:33

in their mind is about you know

57:35

hopefully they're not thinking about

57:36

somebody committing far but that's the

57:38

worst you know realization to be double

57:40

doubly victimized you know you're not

57:41

getting your

57:42

uh employment back your car back you

57:45

know your house is not being repaired

57:47

and then somebody comes over and does

57:48

this to you so it'd be good to have that

57:49

information

57:51

to educate our clients

57:52

yeah i'd be happy to send whatever you

57:55

folks need

57:57

it's all free of charge

58:00

so we like that's how we do it we're the

58:01

best attorneys money can't buy so yeah

58:03

we appreciate it i like that

58:08

uh mr lohmann i think uh yeah we covered

58:11

most everything i wanted to cover here

58:12

on this or something else belinda or amy

58:13

have to uh address here we don't want to

58:15

take much of your friday afternoon

58:19

now this has been

58:21

amazing thorough

58:23

yeah so thank you so much yeah yeah it

58:26

was good seeing you again amy nice to

58:28

see you too thank you so much for your

58:29

time friend

58:33