Texas Disaster Legal Help Podcast

Recovery After a Disaster: FEMA Appeals

Texas Disaster Legal Help Project

Join the TDLH Podcast team as they talk with Christina Brown and Chase Porter about common oversights in the initial FEMA application and how to appeal a decision.

Visit our website 
https://texasdisasterlegalhelp.org/


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Recovery After a Disaster



Speakers:

Christina Brown (Lone Star Legal Aid)

Chase Brown (Lone Star Legal Aid)

(Recorded Oct. 2nd, 2020)



okay

 

welcome everyone my name is pablo

 

almaguer you all know me the director of

 

government…..

 

 government and private bar relations

 

there you go, it takes a while to say

 

that early in the morning here and i

 

haven't had enough coffee

 

but here together we're doing a the

 

joint project

 

that we're  putting together some

 

podcasts for pro bono attorneys and this

 

is our

 

second cle topic third podcast

 

this one is gonna be recovery after a

 

disaster before we begin though on

 

the topic and

 

head over to belinda who's going to

 

introduce  our two speakers i want to

 

just kind of remind you all what this is all

 

about

 

this project  is a coordinated project

 

between legal aid of northwest texas

 

Lone star legal aid and texas


Rio grande legal aid

 

its aim of improving access to justice

 

for those affected by disasters

 

our project allows both disaster

 

survivors and pro bono attorneys to

 

access critical resources in one place

 

while at the same time making it easier

 

to connect disaster survivors need an

 

evil help the volunteer attorney is

 

willing to provide it

 

if you haven't gone yet to the website

 

this is a bit of a long website but you

 

can hopefully write it down

 

or we want to take back here a bit to

 

listen to it it's texas

 

disaster legal health dot

 

simplejustice.org

 

that's

 

texasdisasterlegalhelp.simplejustice.org

 

check it out see the many resources we

 

have there and include this podcast and

 

many others

 

so having said that here let me go ahead

 

and turn over to my co-host belinda

 

Martinez


 thank you pablo

 

our guests today are christina brown and

 

chase porter,  christina is a

 

graduate of southern university law

 

center

 

and holds a bachelor's of arts from

 

university of texas at san antonio

 

she was an equal justice works fellow

 

serving in the disaster recover legal

 

corps

 

drlc for the past two years she is

 

currently a staff attorney in the

 

disaster relief unit at lone star legal

 

aid

 

she's dedicated to protecting and

 

advocating for the rights of vulnerable

 

communities and has experience

 

representing clients in various single

 

civil

 

legal matters including workers

 

compensation personal injury and

 

products

 

liability claims our second guest is

 

chase porter

 

he's a graduate of texas a& m has a

 

master's degree in public policy from ut

 

Austin's LBJ school of public affairs

 

and he went to law school at the

 

university of texas school of law

 

he's currently an equal justice works

 

fellow at lsla's houston office working

 

on

 

environmental challenges facing

 

communities on the texas gulf coast

 

including the consequences of climate

 

Change and the increased frequency of disasters

 

he just finished in august two years as

 

a member of the equal justice works

 

disaster recovery

 

legal corps at lone star legal aid where

 

he focused on a broad number of issues

 

facing survivors of hurricane harvey in

 

houston and harris county

 

including handling a number of fema

 

Appeals


 thank you guys for being with us

 

today

 

so good to be here okay so just get to

 

start it 


 big pictures disasters

 

what are we seeing in texas

 

yeah so i mean i'll go ahead and i'll

 

answer that i think

 

 you know specifically in texas

 

flooding right like that it kind of

 

seems like even if it's not necessarily

 

a hurricane right like a

 

just we all we're we seem to always get

 

a lot of that tropical moisture and so

 

you know holds over the city you know it

 

seems like every time it rains here

 

there's some sort of flood so i think

 

you know it's going to be for

 

you know specifically for houston

 

anyways i think it's probably more of

 

like a flooding situation

 

 you know but although obviously we

 

see our fair share of you know

 

hurricanes

 

but  i know that this is you know

 

maybe needs to be a little bit broader

 

so i know there's a lot of different

 

types of natural disasters and things

 

that occur

 

you know that would you know prompt you

 

know

 

fema you know assistance and help but

 

but yeah that's pretty much what you

 

know we see here

 

okay and i'm assuming with

 

climate change or whatever you believe

 

is causing it we are seeing

 

more disasters than in recent years  i

 

know austin's have fires

 

 dallas has tornadoes and lovely

 

houston gets

 

 hurricanes  just

 

have you seen the increase in  the

 

last couple years last decade

 

and how much of an increase

 

definitely and in houston it seems like

 

you know i came here to help

 

specifically with harvey

 

and while i was still trying to help

 

people recover from harvey

 

we had hurricane or tropical storm

 

 tropical storm rolled through we had

 

several

 

other flood events that that were

 

affecting people

 

so it's we're getting to a frequency

 

where it seems like

 

by the time we're just recovering from

 

the previous storm

 

we're being hit again which puts people

 

in this unfortunate

 

cycle of recovery and then

 

recovering again  and i think we're

 

in in west texas we've seen some

 

wildfires

 

 we all know that what's going on on

 

the west coast right now

 

as we're speaking that we're seeing a

 

huge uptick

 

in not just hurricanes but fires

 

other flood events and you know i

 

suspect they'll see

 

more tornadoes and severe storms that

 

that

 

rip through parts of texas and in the

 

southeast so

 

 we're certainly seeing more and more

 

events that bring

 

fema and other disaster assistance the

 

play

 

in fact let me just ask something here

 

real quick i'm sorry christina

 

i'll go ahead no and i mean i was just

 

going to piggyback on what chase said i

 

mean i can think that just in the last

 

five

 

years you know i think it was like

 

 2015 and 2016  where we had the memorial day

 

flood the tax day floods you know

 

then in  2017 there was hurricane harvey

 

then there was

 

you know imelda and then hannah

 

and you know so it's like even in the

 

last five years it feels like

 

every year something you know there's

 

some sort of disaster

 

is affecting you know the southeast you

 

know

 

coast of texas and so  it it really

 

had i mean fema's

 

you know doing a lot you know has been

 

helping out a lot you know for

 

those  southeastern counties here in

 

texas

 

yeah i was going to say when i you know

 

been practicing for 20 years which i

 

think is about the age of most of you

 

all here on the screen

 

 and about  10 years ago or so just

 

take it take it though yeah

 

 i'm actually have a screen here you

 

all can only listen to us but trust me

 

they sound and look young i'm the old

 

one here

 

but  i remember that ten years ago we

 

didn't even have a disaster assistance

 

or recovery team in legal aid so i want

 

our pro bono attorneys to know that we

 

actually have to

 

specialize in it because many of the

 

people who are affected have to come to

 

us for services so now we have

 

all three legal aids maybe around the

 

nation too and have specified

 

specific teams that focus just on

 

disastrous assistance and recovery

 

isn't that the case for lone star and

 

for  i'm sure also legal aid of 

 

northwest texas

 

yes  lone story does have a dedicated

 

disaster relief unit

 

and as you said it's become a hot button

 

Specialty law sector

 

unfortunately i mean it was

 

like at one point

 

i mean chase how many attorneys did we i

 

mean  

 

 10 12 attorneys at one point and i was

 

about to say that

 

it the size of our unit has goes up and

 

down over time a little bit just

 

funding issues but there is definitely a

 

point

 

where we may have been the largest

 

individual group of attorneys at lone

 

star legal aid

 

we were our unit in houston was

 

certainly bigger than than

 

a number of our offices and that's

 

how much work there was to do yeah it

 

was like it's like a mid-sized firm

 

almost you know like of attorneys

 

just working on disaster assistance and

 

helping people recover

 

and things like that so i mean it's

 

definitely been an uptick i mean i think

 

that kind of shows just how

 

you know dire and kind of just how you

 

know repetitive

 

you know disaster disasters are becoming

 

at this point

 

that's right 

 

Okay so after disaster when does fema show up

 

and

 

how do they show up 


Well the big thing to keep out keep a lookout

 

for

 

after a disaster or potentially in the

 

days before

 

disaster if it's obvious that houston's

 

going to be hit by

 

a massive hurricane or new orleans or

 

whatever 

 

that the president has to declare a

 

federal disaster

 

and in that that federal declaration

 

will identify

 

counties or states and where the

 

the disaster has been declared and then

 

he will

 

identify what types of assistance are

 

available fema

 

as i think most people know is a massive

 

organization

 

with a number of of programs and types

 

of assistance

 

aimed at individuals on up to the local

 

government

 

state governments in that he will

 

identify individual assistance may be

 

available

 

and when that is in that declaration

 

that's when

 

legal aids client base individual

 

families

  

and individuals can get assistance from

 

fema

 

so that's really the starting point when

 

you see that

 

that's when fema will will open up their

 

phone lines they'll open up their

 

website

 

and they will come physically come to

 

the disaster affected area

 

and set up what are called disaster

 

recovery centers

 

usually called the drc and this is where

 

individuals can

 

physically go to apply for fema

 

assistance in person

 

okay so they can go to these centers and

 

someone will help them with the initial

 

application

 

right you know a lot of people now

 

have smartphones especially

 

during covid more and more people have

 

gotten access to the internet but we

 

after a disaster  it's quite possible

 

you won't have that ability or you maybe

 

you just don't have that technology

 

and so the drc's are set up where you

 

can physically go to


fema has staff available

 

sometimes they're legal aid or other

 

attorneys that are allowed in to

 

kind of help educate people  but

 

that's where you can go to

 

physically interact with a fema rep who

 

can help you with the application

 

and let me let me ask about that i think

 

it happens at all drc's around the state

 

or nation

 

it's actually the aba young lawyers

 

division i believe that has a station

 

agreement with the drc's to have a

 

station there and usually the legal aid

 

attorneys

 

manned those stations or one of those

 

many stations that people visited the

 

drc's is that correct

 

yes that's right yeah yeah and yeah

 

pablo and you and you say that and it's

 

like you know even

 

you know every time there's about an

 

impending you know 

 

hurricane or something that's coming i

 

mean we literally have like disaster

 

hits in our trunks right like we

 

literally

 

you're in the disaster relief unit like

 

you you have these these tools available

 

because

 

we're gonna have to then go out to those

 

centers right like if it does happen if

 

it does strike and so

 

you know we're prepared i mean that's

 

just the level of preparation that goes

 

into making sure that we can get out to

 

these

 

you know these centers and and you know

 

make sure that people

 

register and i also kind of just wanted

 

to note it that you know

 

people and this is for those you know

 

pro bono lawyers who have

 

no idea how to do this but you know

 

people only have 60  days to register

 

with fema right like so you only get

 

you know  60 days after the declaration

 

for you to be able to apply for fema you

 

know services and

 

sometimes it's extended but i don't even

 

like i don't even like to you know

 

rely on that because you know it's just

 

so important for people to know even if

 

even if you don't need the help even if

 

you have insurance like you know it's

 

just really important that people

 

if you were affected by the disaster you

 

just you definitely have to apply

 

you know within those days and so that's

 

like what chase was saying

 

if you don't have a smartphone if you

 

don't have access to those things

 

that's when those drc centers you know

 

become  very beneficial to a lot of

 

people who you know are just trying to

 

you know

 

make it through what's already you know

 

a difficult situation

 

so i think what you're saying is that

 

you all were doing remote advocacy

 

before it was fashionable like it is

 

nowadays so we're ready to go in that

 

old box like

 

we have two right with some files with

 

your wi-fi

 

with your cell phone your satellite

 

phone sometimes to get through so i want

 

folks to know that we have experts in

 

the field here and all legal aids they

 

can answer your questions but

 

also remember that  the largest number

 

of applicants of course go to the drc's

 

and we have somebody there so we get a

 

lot of applicants at legally because we

 

have somebody there

 

doing the intakes and that's why we need

 

the pro bono help

 

and also i guess the second phase of the

 

fema application is we do a lot of

 

appeals

 

for clients  so just a

 

general note on appeals because that's

 

generally what the pro bono

 

volunteers are going to be doing so just

 

basics

 

 client has been denied what's the

 

deadline to appeal for fema

 

yeah so i mean the deadline is you know

 

it's sixty days

 

usually it's generally  60 days from the

 

date of the denial letter right

 

but i do kind of want to just go back to

 

you know

 

i i think it's really great that there's

 

pro bono attorneys out there that really

 

want to help because

 

we really do get inundated and all the

 

help that we can get during those

 

disasters i mean is so beneficial and we

 

can help so many people

 

but you know you want to make sure that

 

you get you know an authorization for

 

release of information for fema right if

 

you're gonna

 

represent these people be filing

 

their appeals make sure that you have

 

that because fema

 

you know they're not you you want to get

 

a copy of their file like right and the

 

only way that you can do that is with

 

that authorization for release of

 

information right

 

so i'm sorry i just wanted to kind of go

 

back no

 

actually that's a good point let's back

 

up what's the general process of an

 

appeal

 

just in general like where would you

 

start

 

right so i mean you know you apply for

 

and i don't know we wanted to get into

 

specifics on all there's a bunch of

 

different types of   assistance that

 

you can you know that fema offers right

 

after a disaster has you know 

 

hit and so  you know when people start

 

applying for these different you know

 

programs

 

and different you know disaster

 

assistance that's whenever you know you

 

start getting the denials right it's

 

about

 

it takes them about  90 days to come up

 

with a decision on what

 

you know what you qualify for the amount

 

you know things like that and so then

 

you know

 

people start getting those denial

 

letters and so when the denial letters

 

come you know usually it's

 

maybe they're missing some sort of

 

information from you know the file

 

or you know maybe a fema inspector

 

gone out there and says that they

 

believe that the home is

 

what they call habitable which means you

 

you can live in the home right we don't

 

think there was that much damage and so

 

 yeah which is a very you know we

 

fight with that a lot it's a very

 

very subjective  kind of

 

 evaluation i guess you would like to

 

say that

 

that that they perform but  you know

 

and so those appeals you know

 

you get a letter basically you're denied

 

whatever

 

whatever assistance that you've applied

 

for and you basically have 60  days right

 

 

60 days from the date of the denial letter

 

to either 

 

you know appeal or supplement your

 

information get whatever

 

you know whatever else they need 

 

there is 

 

a good cause exception and you know i

 

kind of use the example like sometimes

 

people get hurt in

 

a disaster right sometimes people are in

 

the hospital sometimes people get sick i

 

mean there are a lot of things that

 

happen

 

that would prevent you from being able

 

to you know file that appeal within that

 

 day deadline and so

 

if you have some sort of good cause

 

argument you know

 

 we would definitely try to do that a

 

lot for our clients

 

and and i'll hop in there and say that

 

there are a lot of reasons why

 

it's 60 days well first off it's  60 days

 

from the date of the letter

 

in fema people applicants our clients

 

can set up an online account where

 

they'll see the letter immediately

 

but a lot of times our clients are

 

receiving these letters through the mail

 

it's not 60 days from when they got it

 

it's  60 days from the date of the letter

 

and a big issue that i

 

i've seen is after a disaster if people

 

can't live

 

go back to their home their house it got

 

flooded

 

their apartment building is shut down

 

whatever it may be

 

a huge issue is that fema doesn't have a

 

current address

 

so when you do work with

 

the first time you talk to a client i

 

think it's always worth

 

asking them where are they living now

 

does fema have that address

 

how how are you receiving information

 

from fema

 

you can always make the argument that

 

you didn't receive the letter because

 

you moved but fema

 

potentially will tell you you know it's

 

on you to

 

inform us where you are and make sure

 

you're getting that information

 

another thing about the the deadline

 

i've found sometimes that

 

fema doesn't necessarily strictly follow

 

the  60 day rule

 

 so i recommend sometimes if you're

 

close

 

 you can go ahead and file the appeal

 

even if you don't clearly see that

 

there's good cause

 

you can go ahead and try it just make

 

sure

 

that you're you're setting the

 

expectation for

 

the client that we are past the 60 days

 

i've made my good cause argument but

 

i'm not sure it's it's a winning one or

 

you just decide to file the appeal

 

without highlighting the fact that

 

you're past the  60 days and just tell

 

them we're gonna try

 

but  i can't guarantee you that

 

they'll accept it

 

and as long as you set that expectation

 

up front i think you can go ahead and

 

try to get something in late

 

the worst case is you're told no best

 

cases they get help so keep that in mind

 

that

 

the  60 days depending

 

i guess on who's reviewing it i'm not

 

really sure how it happens it's a bit of

 

a

 

moving deadline you could say and i

 

think so just piggyback what you know

 

off of what chase said as far as like

 

managing your clients expectations

 

i think that's also important with like

 

you know when you're receiving that you

 

know

 

monetary you know assistance from fema

 

like you know

 

it's not meant to make you whole you

 

know and i think that's one of the

 

biggest misconceptions

 

is that you know  people expect that

 

you know

 

you know fema's gonna give me everything

 

that i need to make my house you know

 

just the way it was before and and

 

the truth is it just doesn't work that

 

way right and so i think that it's

 

really important

 

you know if you do decide to take on

 

these fema appeals which are which are

 

super easy

 

super you know once you get the template

 

once you get it down and so i really

 

want to encourage

 

anyone who's listening to this you know

 

that that they're it's really easy and

 

it's a it's a really great way to help

 

people but

 

  i agree with chase you definitely

 

have to manage you know

 

you have to manage their expectations

 

 let me say something real quick here

 

because i know our pro bono attorneys

 

might not be

 

maybe they have taken cases before maybe

 

they have not but it's a very important

 

point you all kind of made in passing

 

but it is happening in fema cases

 

that the status the poverty status of

 

our clients is used against them as a

 

reason for denial and it's just

 

not we don't want to kind of ignore that

 

issue because it really is because

 

i've seen it you know our clients have

 

been told yeah you wanted to have your

 

your house without a roof in leaking

 

water in here you've had it like this

 

forever you live like this

 

because you haven't repaired it no i

 

have a humble abode because you know i

 

don't have the money to

 

you know expand it but it wasn't leaking

 

like this and those are literally

 

actually i've never been fights and

 

fema appeals that my house is not this

 

bad in this repair just i don't have

 

money to repair

 

i wanted to make that point for pro bono

 

attorneys because you will see some of

 

those appeals and

 

chase you mentioned date of the letter

 

that's the denial letter right of the

 

of the benefits yes so fema

 

after you apply  fema will

 

look at your application and look at the

 

supporting documentation that was

 

submitted which could be

 

insurance policies receipts bills

 

i guess you could submit photos 

 

they may send an inspector out to your

 

house

 

i'm backing up a little bit here back

 

kind of to the application process but

 

 fema will send an inspector out to

 

the property to look at it

 

or they may do what's called a

 

geospatial inspection which is they

 

look at like a satellite image to see

 

damaged areas

 

and look at the documentation you

 

submitted they evaluate that and

 

identify what they

 

 what they believe that you're

 

entitled to receive from them

 

they'll send a letter  it may be an

 

award letter saying

 

you get all these things that

 

you you think you you might want or

 

they'll send a

 

what i call a partial denial letter

 

which says that you're receiving

 

 x amount of money for these reasons

 

but we're denying this and this and here

 

are the reasons

 

or they'll just send a letter denying

 

you outright

 

 that that's typically when

 

as attorneys we come in 

 

that through the application process

 

it's a lot of education

 

answering questions when that appeal

 

letter comes through

 

 typically that's when we step in and

 

we identify the

 

the type of assistance that they're

 

trying to to achieve

 

to to get and the reasons why fema has

 

denied them

 

 and then so the date of that letter

 

 starts that 60-day clock 

 

christina mentioned supplementing

 

letters that we send to fema

 

supplementing our appeal letters which

 

are in response to the

 

denial letter  as long as you get in

 

your initial

 

appeal within that  60 days or you have

 

good cause

 

or it's been accepted  i always would

 

recommend that

 

if you you do have

 

supplemental information to give to fema

 

say for example the client

 

needs to provide insurance information

 

but they weren't able to get that

 

document

 

in time to send it within the  60 days

 

to send what you can to fema within the

 

 60 days

 

and then up until you hear from fema

 

making a decision go ahead and

 

supplement that application

 

or that appeal with whatever

 

documentation whatever information you

 

can gather

 

up until that date  don't hold

 

back information just because you've

 

already sent an appeal in

 

and you're past that  60 days i just want

 

to make sure we highlight that and

 

people know that they can do that

 

if your client ends up taking a video of

 

the damages

 

after the appeal letter or has some

 

documentation go ahead and give it to

 

the attorney and so it can be sent in

 

absolutely and make it when you

 

you have that initial conversation with

 

a client  set that expectation

 

that they need to send you 

 

whatever may be relevant and they need

 

to communicate with you that if they

 

receive a letter from fema

 

to send it to you soon as possible if

 

they're able

 

as soon as they're able to gather

 

documents to make sure that they can get

 

that

 

to you as soon as they can

 

 and just a question  there is

 

flat-out denial and there is denial

 

because missing paperwork

 

 but let's say you do get some money

 

can you appeal

 

for additional money if you're like no i

 

had way more damages than what you're

 

saying i need a little bit more

 

absolutely yeah sure i mean you want to

 

take a chase

 

sure i i was just going to say that fema

 

they use a very specific system where

 

they identify

 

 specific

 

personal types of personal property or

 

elements of your house and they'll

 

they'll judge that

 

you know your kitchen needed so much

 

money and they may judge that your

 

bedroom

 

doesn't need to be repaired if they

 

grant you some money to

 

to fix your kitchen up but you still

 

feel like your bedroom is not habitable

 

you

 

can't reasonably live there you can

 

certainly

 

file an appeal asking for more money and

 

the same goes for personal property if

 

they

 

give you a certain amount of money to

 

replace

 

medication but it's not enough to

 

actually

 

cover all the medication you lost you

 

can certainly appeal for more money

 

and i think i just want to kind of just

 

backtrack you know pablo

 

you know something that you said and

 

then kind of you know 

 

similar to like what chase is saying is

 

that you know

 

those videos just like you said if you

 

you know it's so important that we do

 

that we're pro you know we're proactive

 

rather than reactive right

 

so i know we're talking about fema

 

appeals which is kind of after the

 

disaster has passed but

 

that's why it's so important even for

 

you know you pro bono attorneys out

 

there you know you guys have family on

 

you know gulf coasts or you know in

 

wildfires and things like that but that

 

you know you take a video of your home

 

take pictures of your home before

 

a disaster you know occurs and that way

 

you know

 

you know you have that and then and then

 

after it happens you know you also take

 

videos and photos right

 

it makes it a lot easier right when you

 

when you have a before and after to show

 

like hey this is the damage like

 

you know because just like you said some

 

people live very humbly

 

and you know and so you know an

 

inspector coming in may think that this

 

is already not like sorry we're not

 

going to help you because you want us to

 

fix your house up and it was never

 

you know whatever to begin with and so

 

that that's why it's really important to

 

kind of

 

just you know pictures videos you know

 

things like that are going to be really

 

really helpful

 

you know if you have them before and

 

then if you have them kind of like after

 

and so

 

you know it's always kind of good to you

 

know ask your clients that's why we do a

 

lot of like outreach

 

before the next disaster hits so that we

 

can make sure to get that kind of

 

information out

 

you know to people  and it just makes

 

our lives easier their lives easier it

 

helps us to be able to help them get the

 

disaster assistance

 

you know that they need in a timely you

 

know manner

 

and and keep important documents in a

 

very safe place

 

you'll you'll find that fema

 

assistance to our client base and

 

potentially us and our families and

 

friends

 

 there there's a bunch of different

 

programs but

 

most of them are very document based

 

fema wants to see your insurance policy

 

fema wants to know

 

 that you have a

 

prescription for this type of medication

 

fema

 

 needs to see your your bills for

 

whatever

 

 keep those important documents like

 

 a deed to your house something

 

showing the ownership of your house

 

if you're a renter a copy of your lease

 

make sure you have a copy of your lease

 

showing you occupy somewhere if you have

 

insurance on your car your house your

 

apartment

 

whatever it may be keep those documents

 

somewhere safe

 

identification right like you can't even

 

apply for fema

 

without an id you know so and it's like

 

even

 

if you don't have some sort of

 

waterproof container put it in a double

 

ziploc

 

bag you know what i'm saying like

 

something simple it doesn't cost

 

a lot but you know that will even

 

protect it from you know protect your

 

documents from

 

you know from the floodwaters and so 

 

yeah just like chase said it's that

 

that's that's really important

 

you know i actually i want to let pro

 

bono attorneys know not only is it

 

podcast available at the website that i

 

mentioned the top

 

of the recording here but some of these

 

forms are talking about some sample

 

stuff is also available there so if you

 

have a chance go to the website and

 

check that out

 

but if you want to contact your local

 

legal agency you want them some

 

you know sort of preventative training

 

to happen we do it for both clients

 

and attorneys how to prepare for a

 

disaster so you can prepare your office

 

or your clients can prepare for their

 

home

 

and the simple like a little advice

 

putting in a waterproof container for

 

example

 

that helps so much when you start doing

 

these appeals for your clients

 

a lot of a lot of fema denials are

 

are simply a paperwork issue

 

 if you were to look at

 

the the big document explaining all the

 

eligibility criteria it's overwhelming

 

it's huge

 

but so many of the appeals that we

 

take on for clients we take on some that

 

are real

 

they're monsters of you're arguing about

 

whether a house is habitable and you're

 

it can be quite the fight but a lot of

 

appeals

 

are simply because fema didn't get a

 

Document

 

 because your client didn't have it at

 

the time or

 

fema didn't process it correctly or fema

 

just doesn't understand what they're

 

looking

 

at  and so a lot of issues if you can

 

work with the client to locate a

 

specific document

 

or or contact the insurance company and

 

get them to send you a policy whatever

 

it may be you can solve a lot of these

 

appeals

 

by just narrowing down what what

 

document does fema need to see and once

 

i submit that document

 

the gate will be open and i

 

the floodgate will be open i hate to

 

make the flood reference but

 

 you know a lot of these appeals

 

really are one little discrete issue

 

and so if you can just see the denial

 

letter understand

 

what does fema need to see and if it's

 

not clear

 

call fema or reach out to a legal aid

 

attorney

 

 you can you can do a lot of good by

 

just

 

sending fema one document with a little

 

explanation of what it is

 

you know i don't think i've ever done a

 

training for disaster assistance without

 

using those words flooding

 

opening the gates or perfect storm and i

 

always have to be careful i don't know

 

why but it happens

 

every time we talk about these things

 

sorry

 

oh no no you're fine you're absolutely

 

right 

 

i'm just going to go back to you say

 

fema actually goes and inspects

 

the property either the apartment or

 

the home

 

does fema have set standards for those

 

inspections like

 

every inspector okay i getting a lot of head shaking 

 

Everyone’s face... right belinda can see

 

our reactions

 

you want to go you can take the camera i

 

you know i mentioned that

 

christina knows that i i will 

 

when i was still doing fema appeals up

 

until a couple weeks ago

 

 fight to the death with fema over

 

this

 

 the the standards are a little

 

squirrely

 

 basically this is important to know

 

we talked about managing expectations

 

and so

 

let me kind of go back to that 

 

fema will if you let's say you have two

 

people

 

in your household fema will only

 

offer to repair enough of your house

 

that they think

 

is needed for two people so they may not

 

repair your entire house i've had this

 

with a client who she had a two-bedroom

 

house and she

 

lived there alone or fema thought she

 

lived there alone

 

they refused to touch one of her

 

bedrooms

 

and the one bedroom that they were

 

willing to repair

 

they only offered to repair so much of

 

it

 

because the standard is it has to be

 

uninhabitable

 

and it's not always very obvious

 

where that standard is i've 

 

you know i it's subjective we have no

 

idea how they make the determination if

 

we're just going to be  100 we have no

 

idea how fema

 

determines whether this house is

 

habitable and this one is like

 

i have no we don't know right and so it

 

just

 

it's kind of one of those battles that i

 

think we're kind of kind of like legal

 

like legal aides across the country are

 

gonna you know slowly have to fight

 

together to get some sort of clarity on

 

but as it stands right now

 

we don't have that the standard

 

go ahead pablo i'm sorry no no

 

 i was just gonna say i you know make

 

it clear to clients and make sure that

 

you understand

 

that the standard for whether something

 

is habitable

 

or uninhabitable can be can appear

 

quite low and you have to be realistic

 

with the client that fema's

 

probably not going to fix your bedroom

 

all the way back up to where it was

 

before or your kitchen

 

 if they

 

understand that they may be a little

 

more understanding of why

 

fema is continuing to deny them for

 

habitability reasons even if

 

we strongly disagree with that decision

  

it's just important to relay to clients

 

to make sure they understand

 

fema's not looking to make you

 

completely whole

 

you know and something to add to that

 

several of us organizations of legal aid

 

organizations around the nation actually

 

have actually filed suits

 

against fema to just have a definition

 

clarified you know

 

and we identify many of these issues

 

because we see them when the fema

 

denials come back so if you're a pro

 

bono attorney and seeing the pattern

 

you let us know it could probably work

 

on something to better define it and

 

there

 

are some large firms out there if

 

they're listening here you're part of a

 

large firm

 

who've assisted us in those appeals i'm

 

all in

 

in the clarifications of the regulations

 

that are sometimes non-existent i think

 

we have them like a super secret or

 

super super secret you know

 

 sort of interpretations that we have

 

to kind of discover once in a while but

 

 this is a benefit having pro bono attorneys

 

Help us out to identify these

 

matters

 

yeah and then i just kind of wanted to

 

add to chase for the pro bono attorneys

 

that are listening to this you know

 

 one of the ways we try to get around

 

the whole habitability argument

 

is we get other inspectors  we we have other you

 

know people go out and

 

you know what's the word i'm looking for

 

contractors to go out and do estimates

 

like no

 

like they need at least fifty thousand

 

dollars based on you know the damages

 

that have occurred and so sometimes

 

getting those second opinions

 

 and then submitting those with the

 

fema appeal right like

 

you know like sometimes you know that's

 

kind of the way that we try to get

 

around the habitability

 

you know   kind of there well the

 

denial is the better word 

 

i don't we haven't quite gone through it

 

and i don't know if i'm i'm kind of

 

jumping

 

the gun but just kind of just like what

 

needs to be in a fema appeal

 

 you know we talked about the  60 days

 

you know you have to appeal

 

of course you know you're gonna have to

 

give a written explanation right include

 

the law and the facts you know stafford

 

act

 

you know things like that i think just

 

like you mentioned pablo you guys may

 

have some sort of resources 

 

available  some templates there

 

and then you know you're going to want

 

to make sure that you get copies of

 

Documents and photos from your clients

 

right

 

proof of the disaster losses like you

 

need that when you submit that appeal

 

like don't submit it

 

you absolutely need that information 

 

and then every

 

every disaster in case anyone didn't

 

know every disaster has a four-digit

 

disaster number right and and and every

 

fema application has a nine digit fema

 

number and so you want to make sure that

 

that four digit disaster number and that

 

nine digit fema

 

application number is on every single

 

piece of documentation that you submit to

 

fema

 

like i don't care if it's just a photo

 

of the front of that like

 

every in the i put it in the  the

 

footer

 

of of my appeals and i make sure i put

 

it because a lot of times stuff gets

 

lost and

 

you know they can't find they don't know

 

where it goes and then you you know so

 

it can become you know kind of

 

crazy to say the least in the whole you

 

know application and appeal process

 

and dealing with just fema in general

 

and then you know you got to make sure

 

that it's signed by the attorney and it

 

has to be signed by the applicant

 

under penalty of perjury right like the

 

applicant has to sign it under penalty

 

of perjury you know that

 

everything you know within here is

 

basically you know true and correct so i

 

just kind of wanted to just give just

 

kind of a really quick

 

like snapshot of what needs to be

 

included and you know what we do is we

 

make them exhibits right in the back of

 

the you know in the back of the appeal

 

give out you know you give out

 

everything you know the law the facts

 

you know how this pertains to that

 

particular client what you're asking

 

fema for

 

and then you know exhibit a b c d


 I think i mean i think i had

 

almost to L  one time like you know just

 

submitting

 

you know making sure that fema has

 

everything they need so

 

you know they can't say no you know and

 

so  that's kind of

 

just kind of where go ahead yeah chase

 

you can

 

i mean i think you make a good point 

 

first off there are

 

there are just some elements of an

 

appeal that need to be there

 

 the the client's name address

 

their fema registration number  the

 

disaster number

 

those can all be found on their denial

 

letter by the way

 

 or if you have a question you can

 

call the fema hotline

 

importantly though fema won't talk to us

 

as their advocates

 

unless  a fema authorization is on file

 

and i don't think fema has a standard

 

form but i think

 

all the legal aids have created a form

 

that they they send in

 

 i'm correct me for wrong i'm sure

 

that form is available

 

some type of form like that's available

 

absolutely pro bono attorneys

 

 texas disaster legal help website we

 

do have

 

sample appeals letter with citing the

 

stafford act and some examples of code

 

that may be helpful and then we also do

 

have a

 

a template for the authorization of

 

release

 

so yeah so always make sure that you

 

send that

 

in even if you're just sending in an

 

appeal that is signed by the

 

the client go ahead and send that

 

authorization into

 

if you're you're getting the client to

 

sign the appeal they can sign the

 

authorization

 

 that way it's in if you need to call

 

the fema hotline to get clarification

 

about something

 

if you don't quite understand an appeal

 

letter or a denial letter excuse me

 

you can call and get a little bit more

 

information 

 

and as far as you know all the evidence

 

and stuff

 

you can make a fema appeal as long as

 

involved as you want it i don't think it

 

does any harm

 

 sometimes if they're asking for a

 

very discreet document

 

 just write in your appeal letter on

 

october 1st 2020  you sent

 

client a letter stating that they're

 

denied for

 

assistance repairing their vehicle

 

because they

 

did not show that they didn’t have

 

insurance covering the damage

 

attached to this letter is the insurance

 

policy

 

with the car and a letter from their

 

insurance company

 

saying that they are not covering the

 

damage and you can potentially just

 

leave it at that if you want to 

 

or you can like christina was talking

 

about you can

 

add photos whatever you think is

 

appropriate just put in

 

more than what you think fema may want

 

to know if if you have the time and

 

ability to do so

 

and i want to point out something out

 

too that we talk about appeals here we

 

hear appeals and

 

we want to make sure as you hear from

 

the representers here they're not table

 

of contents

 

briefs you know code of appeals appeals

 

they're appealing

 

to administrative agencies so  there

 

might be the stafford act  some other

 

citations to the law

 

but you can be licensed anywhere in the

 

nation to help with fema appeals

 

in texas you can even be law students

 

supervised by a law professor for that

 

so  don't feel intimidated by the word

 

appeal

 

you can advocate if you can advocate you

 

can make you can draft one of these

 

letters

 

yeah i think most of the time fema

 

i think a lot of appeals are hand

 

written by a client that doesn't have

 

a legal advocate helping them so

 

 yeah don't feel like it's not

 

you're not going to to miss a rule about

 

margins or

 

or font it's whatever form you want to

 

want to submit you can submit it just

 

make sure that you have that crucial bit

 

of information that the name address

 

registration number disaster number and

 

make sure that your client signs it with

 

the statement saying that i'm

 

signing this under penalty of perjury

 

fema

 

will throw your appeal out if that's not

 

there

 

as long as you have that you're good to

 

go and the rest of it can be whatever

 

form you think makes the most sense

 

and then i kind of wanted to just give

 

like a little i don't know if it's a tip

 

or trick or

 

just you know you wouldn't know it if

 

this was your first time

 

helping with fema appeals and so you

 

know we generally

 

don't get the cases right off the bat

 

right like

 

help but let us because if if i was to

 

be able to send it the first time

 

we might have better luck right we

 

generally get them after they've been

 

denied

 

once twice three times and now they're

 

coming like hey i need help

 

you know i keep getting a denial from

 

fema and so that's why that whole

 

authorization is really important to get

 

as soon as possible because

 

i'm gonna tell you i can't there's been

 

a lot of times where i requested the

 

entire file from

 

fema and i find the documents that they

 

claimed

 

that they never received you know

 

and so it's like you know

 

and sometimes you know our clients

 

aren't able to articulate

 

why they were denied sometimes fema

 

isn't very clear on why you know they

 

were denied and so

 

a copy of the file from fema can be 

 

extremely extremely helpful and just you

 

as a lawyer kind of picking through

 

going through

 

okay let me understand kind of like

 

what's happened and where you are in the

 

process

 

of this appeal you know so that's kind

 

of a

 

you know depending on when you get it

 

right i mean if you're catching it

 

you know three months out the gate you

 

probably there's not gonna be a lot but

 

i mean we were getting cases

 

too i mean just like chase said like he

 

just finished a few weeks ago so

 

you know you have time to request that

 

file go through it

 

and like you know no you did have that

 

information so

 

what's you know what's the problem and

 

so i just kind of think that's

 

something that you know

 

would be kind of just a just a little

 

tidbit to help you out if it's

 

the first time you're having a deal you

 

know with with fema

 

okay so i just want to point out so even

 

though the appeal may be denied that

 

might not be the end of the road there

 

might be

 

other things you can still do to help

 

that client 


so

 

maybe the most frustrating thing about

 

fema is in a denial letter

 

you'll often see a statement at the end

 

of it that says this decision is final

 

 it's not you can keep appealing every

 

letter

 

every denial letter  never let that

 

statement

 

stop you from continuing with the appeal

 

yeah i mean i think even for me i think

 

i my i had

 

where i think it was the fourth time

 

right she had already done it three

 

times by the time it got to me we were

 

on like the fourth appeal and i mean

 

every letter says this is the final this

 

decision is final

 

and you know once i did it submitted the

 

correct documentation i mean we were

 

able to get her an extra like four grand

 

so

 

i mean it don't just like chase said

 

like do not be discouraged don't it's

 

not

 

final like you know it it

 

again this is where those guidelines and

 

those things that we

 

you know need from fema would would come

 

and help but but yeah so i

 

just like that it's not final and and i

 

had one thing that that came to mind

 

that i wanted to make sure

 

sometimes we've talked a lot about a

 

denial letter

 

sometimes fema will send the client a

 

letter

 

it's not a denial letter per se but it's

 

just asking for more information

 

it's saying that we need this document

 

that may not have that may have a

 

shorter timeline on it than

 

 60 days fema the letter may

 

state that fema needs to document sent

 

to them within  20 days

 

 i think maybe sometimes it's 10 days

 

although that

 

that seems a little quick to me but 

 

this goes back to once you start that

 

representation

 

making sure that the client understands

 

that that you need to get

 

the correspondence they receive from

 

fema as soon as they can get it to you

 

understanding that they may have

 

challenges and communication

 

 following a disaster and just

 

just due to their ...pablo brought up the

 

poverty

 

issue that a lot of our clients don't

 

have great community access to

 

communication  so keeping that in mind

 

but setting that expectation that they

 

need to send you these documents as soon

 

as they get them

 

because the you know if a client is as

 

frustrated and his

 

as christina said trying to appeal a

 

couple of times on their own they get

 

another letter

 

 they kind of assume it's probably if

 

it doesn't award them something they

 

kind of assume

 

it's just another denial  but on the

 

chance that

 

it's just asking for more information

 

make sure you don't miss that  20-day

 

deadline thinking you have  60 days to

 

send it in

 

so look at the letter  take

 

the day seriously if you're if you're

 

going to be late you can try it anyways

 

 but don't take the decision as final

 

part all that seriously

 

you can always appeal and just like

 

chase said like with the communication

 

and just like the lack of

 

understanding of just how the whole

 

process works for people

 

you know when you first get a client if

 

they don't understand it

 

get fema on the phone with your client

 

right before you i mean before you get

 

the authorization for release of

 

information if you call fema with your

 

client on the line

 

they will talk to you right like they'll

 

get permission from your clients

 

with them about it and then you can kind

 

of get a better understanding like hey

 

what happened why are you denying them

 

what do they need while you're waiting

 

for

 

the physical fema file to be sent to you

 

you know what i'm saying like

 

you don't have to wait because sometimes

 

that can take a month to get you know

 

you take a month to get a fema file

 

especially in the middle of a disaster

 

you know and so

 

you know call fema up now it's not

 

i didn't say it was going to be a quick

 

call but it makes you may be on the

 

phone for two hours with fema but

 

at least you then you are able to get a

 

better understanding as the lawyer

 

of like what's needed what we need to

 

start collecting what the client

 

needs because i'm gonna tell you eight

 

times out of ten the client doesn't know

 

and so they can't even articulate to you

 

all they know is they've gotten this

 

letter that says they're denied and so

 

 that that would that is very i think

 

a really kind of helpful thing

 

for people to know i guess the best

 

practical advice you can probably

 

multitask because you're trying to call

 

fema because you're going to be on hold

 

you're being transferred over and over

 

many times let me just warn you right

 

now

 

yeah yeah and know that when you call

 

fema

 

whoever you're talking to is a

 

representative that

 

is looking at the file for the first

 

time so understand that they've not seen

 

this particular file before and so

 

have that expectation yourself that it

 

may take a little while for them to find

 

the information you need

 

and be prepared to

 

try to be as specific as possible 

 

in what you're asking and be prepared to

 

ask things a couple of different ways

 

or ask them to double check something

 

if something doesn't make sense ask them

 

to look at it again

 

because it is the first time they're

 

looking at that file they've not seen it

 

before

 

and there may be a lot of things going

 

on in it there may be

 

notes for different types of assistance

 

and you want to make sure that they're

 

looking at the the type that you

 

need information about so it can be a

 

bit frustrating but you'll get there

 

with them

 

it'll be alright okay thank you guys

 

and

 

i guess our final question is

 

you said most of the denial is for

 

missing paperwork missing documents

 

 what are the other common types of

 

reason for denial i know when i was

 

doing fema appeals

 

it seemed proof of ownership was a big

 

thing i would see over and over again

 

have you had the same issues with proof

 

of ownerships of homes

 

etc 


yeah so

 

that's a really that's a really big you

 

know 

 

the whole proof of ownership and i mean

 

what we call

 

you know a clear title right not having

 

clear title to your home

 

 a lot of our clients you know 

 

have inherited their homes right so this

 

was grandma's home and

 

then my mom lived here and my mom is now

 

deceased and now i live here but the

 

problem is is that

 

that home is still in grandma's name and

 

so

 

you know fema's not going to give you

 

that repair assistance or give you money

 

because

 

you don't own the home on paper and so

 

that's a really

 

really big thing and and the thing is

 

people you don't know

 

they don't know until the disaster hits

 

until they try to get the help and

 

they're like

 

well of course this is my house like

 

this was my you know this was my

 

mother's house it's my house now but

 

and so we definitely help and work with

 

them to make sure we get those

 

 there's affidavits of heirships that

 

you can just different types of legal

 

documents to ensure

 

that they have you know homeowner rights

 

to that particular property and that

 

speeds up

 

you know the  you know disaster

 

you know assistance recovery if you have

 

that

 

and and on the the title issue

 

fema sometimes will allow you

 

to file almost like an affidavit or a

 

statement from

 

your client explaining you know

 

have it notarized or have the perjury

 

statement on it saying that this is

 

why i own the home this is how i came

 

about ownership

 

you can always do that and send it in

 

and fema may honor that

 

even if  you don't have

 

all the deeds and the affidavits of

 

heirship or

 

if you need to probate a will if you

 

don't have that done

 

especially because a lot of that can

 

take a while to do

 

you can always have the client explain

 

how they came about

 

ownership have that signed by them with

 

a notary or under

 

penalty of perjury send that to fema and

 

fema may honor that they don't always

 

have

 

 title requirements that are as strict

 

or as high as

 

a title company may have if you're

 

trying to sell a house or

 

some of the other disaster programs

 

state and local programs

 

often have very strict title

 

requirements so one thing to do

 

and then that reminds me of a good point

 

is one thing to do

 

is as you work through a fema appeal and

 

if you do see that there are ownership

 

problems  do what you can as a pro

 

bono attorney or

 

 you know see if there is another

 

attorney at your firm that wants to do

 

some title clearing or go back to the

 

legal aid that you you spoke to

 

and see if one of their attorneys can do

 

it     do your best to clear title

 

it will help them it may help them

 

recover from this disaster but it will

 

also put them

 

in a much better position in the future

 

when that other disaster

 

 comes and hits we started this with

 

the discussion about how

 

frequently these are coming through so

 

get them ready for the future while also

 

helping them cover

 

to make a finer point but it's an

 

obvious point to some people that we

 

don't have large estates here i think

 

you can probably take care of any of

 

these title clearing quote-unquote

 

issues when there's somebody who's

 

passed away

 

affidavit of heirship small estates affidavit

 

Transfer on death deed and

 

those documents mean a lot to many of

 

our clients

 

you will not necessarily be in a full

 

probate if you do take on one of those

 

cases and find a title issue i guess

 

it's the big point

 

right and like our clients don't probate

 

right like that

 

like that's i mean you know so it's yeah

 

i mean just like pablo exactly like our

 

clients what

 

it's so  those affidavits of heirship

 

and those transfer on death deeds are

 

like gold

 

like that's that gold standard for for

 

our clients right and so

 

 but yeah yeah and you know and to pro

 

bono attorneys

 

if you have an issue and you can't

 

communicate with a client you can't get

 

certain documents

 

remember to always come back to us

 

Legal aid and give us a call we'll help

 

you

 

contact them we we have experts in the

 

fields we'll find a way

 

to locate them somewhere the other so

 

don't spin your wheels they're trying to

 

deal with this too much come back to us

 

for an issue

 

yeah and i mean i don't know i don't

 

mind like i'm but you know belinda and

 

pablo

 

if y'all get i don't mind answering any

 

pro bono questions helping out whatever

 

whatever y'all i mean y'all know how to

 

contact me so if you guys get that i

 

Am 100%

 

for that     christina you're from the valley

 

i think earlier you told me and i'm from

 

the valley i have a lot of friends out

 

here i grew up here i have a bunch of

 

pro bono questions beyond disaster 


so be careful what you wish for

 

i just wanted to real quickly make a

 

point about the help and support

 

on the texas disaster legal help website

 

we do have a knowledge resource library

 

with a bunch of templates and some basic

 

information

 

fema numbers there is

 

attorney mentors that you can speak with

 

and in the coming months we're actually

 

starting a live chat so if you have a

 

quick question

 

you can type it in real fast and maybe

 

get a real-time answer

 

 so just we do support and help you

 

for the our volunteers who are willing

 

to help out our disaster survivors

 

though but thank you guys so much for

 

talking to us today

 

 we really appreciate it having two

 

knowledgeable experts

 

help out on this podcast and give some

 

great information to our volunteers

 

so thank you thanks sir thanks for

 

having us belinda and pablo it's been

 

it's been great

 

i just want to tell the pro bono

 

attorneys y'all it's not hard it's so

 

easy

 

like it seems like it's like it's hard

 

because it's foreign and you don't know

 

but it is fema appeals is the best way

 

that you can help

 

like your local community your family

 

your friends who've been affected by a

 

disaster so

 

that's that's my i'll end it

 

there but yeah  i 


it sounds

 

overwhelming but when you see

 

a specific reason for denial you'll

 

realize that

 

here's a discrete issue i can do this i

 

can get the right documents i can

 

get the right photos and you can take

 

care of it you can do it

 

as frustrating as it can feel at times

 

once you understand what the problem is

 

there's usually a pretty

 

straightforward way to address it

 

yeah i like the way you all kind of said

 

like for example it says final but it's

 

not final

 

there are regulations but they're not

 

regular that's such a legal kind of

 

thing to say but that's what you need

 

attorneys in this in advocates because

 

you uncover all that

 

you'll say when it's final you'll know

 

what the regulation is if you have an

 

attorney involved

 

yeah yeah

 

 you just want to go ahead and walk us

 

out pablo

 

sure i think unless there's like we have

 

to give up five minutes here

 

if you want to give a quick story 

 

maybe belinda is that okay

 

one each a good fema appeal that you

 

did 


a quick one two minutes long 


Go ahead

 

chase has the best one sure so you know

 

a theme of what i tell other legal aid

 

attorneys

 

or pro bono attorneys is and what pablo

 

just talked about you know it'll be

 

final when we say it's final don't give

 

up

 

don't let don't let this final

 

this decision is final or the  60 days

 

necessarily 

 

lead you and the client to say we can't

 

take this any forward keep with

 

it i i had a client who 

 

he leased a bedroom from his family so

 

he lived with family members and fema

 

 gave him assistance and then gave his

 

family assistance they later

 

wanted to take his assistance back

 

because they thought they had given

 

they'd a family had double dipped 

 

and he he came to legal aid after a year

 

of trying to fight it on his own

 

and he had missed all sorts of deadlines

 

i think he was past the deadline when he

 

came to me 

 

i i ended up writing two appeal letters

 

explaining

 

that yes he's related to these people

 

but here's why he he was

 

leasing a room from them  he should be

 

treated like any other person renting a

 

room

 

 i sent a couple letters and there are

 

some other issues that we had to cover

 

as well but

 

 i ended up writing a letter to the

 

regional office for this part of the

 

country

 

and i i got a phone call

 

and i had to write a second letter

 

saying hey it's been three months y'all

 

haven't contacted me

 

and i finally got a phone call from a

 

supervisor saying

 

we did a complete review of this we 

 

we agree with 95% of what you said

 

 we're completely past the deadlines

 

and they

 

gave him more assistance than we asked

 

for

 

 and so that just hammered into me

 

that

 

keep going keep keep as long as you have

 

the time and ability to do it

 

 keep fighting  keep making the

 

argument because you may get there

 

even if it feels discouraging 


you know i

 

think that issue you're talking about is

 

that a recoupment issue that's what they

 

Term it

 

 that there is a recoupment issue so

 

fema if they feel that they have

 

overpaid somebody given too much

 

assistance for one reason or another

 

they may be able to recoup it

 

 there are ways to argue that

 

you know if it was fema's fault you can

 

tell fema well that was your fault we

 

already spent the money so you can't get

 

it back but

 

 if the client knows that they got

 

paid too much make sure they don't go

 

and spend it

 

and i ask about that because at tulane

 

university in louisiana who's seen their

 

share of disasters i passed through

 

there

 

i think they had a class action suit

 

about this issue a few years ago because

 

a year

 

after like the disaster you got you got

 

these letters from fema

 

yeah the regulation another another

 

thing that you may as a pro bono

 

attorney run into it it may be

 

two years from the last big disaster in

 

your area but that's when fema starts

 

going through the recoupment process and

 

so there may be an opportunity to take

 

one of those cases

 

and and make the argument of why fema

 

didn't overpay your client

 

or that if or that your client doesn't

 

have the ability to repay

 

yeah and i even have i have a few of

 

those recoupment cases now right like

 

from hurricane harvey so now fema’s 

 

going back they're auditing you

 

know so that

 

and i know we're kind of getting a

 

little bit there's just so much within

 

fema but

 

 you know that's why it's important

 

when people get that fema money you have

 

to use it specifically

 

for what they're giving it to you for

 

if you get home repair money it has to be used

 

on home repairs

 

you can't go put a down payment on a car

 

like that's not how this

 

would have well how about you buy your

 

rims for the car though

 

i mean you said this is not well i mean

 

well i mean you're just gonna you're not

 

gonna get a tax return you know to your

 

tax money for the next  years if

 

that's the heck

 

you know so that's just kind of another

 

thing it just you gotta when you get

 

that money whatever they say it's that's

 

what you have to use it for i don't care

 

about because

 

they're gonna come back and they're

 

gonna ask for receipts and they're gonna

 

ask for proof

 

how did you spend the money that we gave

 

you and if you cannot

 

provide that to them you're gonna have

 

to pay the government back and so

 

you know that's we're dealing with a lot

 

of that right now but you know that

 

that's

 

way past it the fema appeal part


well thank you yeah thank

 

you so there's a bit of social work

 

aspect that we have to do for our

 

clients once in a while that happens

 

that way but listen

 

christina chase thank you all so much

 

honestly not only for being part of this

 

discussion  providing some great

 

information

 

but for taking part in such important

 

work you know at your local legal at

 

your own legal organization

 

 belinda i don't know if anything else

 

you want to add here but i think we're

 

ready to wind up here

 

and give it an hour yeah i think it's

 

been a great

 

i think it's been a great podcast it has

 

been thank you so much folks really

 

appreciate it and i hope those listening

 

 got a few ideas here and we'll go to

 

our website and pick up a few cases of

 

pro bono because even a year down the

 

line we'll be needing you

 

take it easy all okay bye