Disasters and Their Effect on the Family

Listen to our guest speakers from Texas RioGrande Legal Aid discuss the various legal issues that affect a family after a disaster. Also in this Podcast: How to spot Domestic Violence and how to help your client.  

Guest Speakers: Maricarmen Garza Coordinator for the Victim’s Rights Group and Amber VanSchuyver Deputy Coordinator of the Domestic Violence and Family Law Group.

 Visit our website at https://texasdisasterlegalhelp.org/

Music Credit: Track: Travel With Us — Vendredi [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: https://youtu.be/o-rpKzt4KSYFree Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/travel-us

Transcript

Disaster and Their Effect on the Family

Speakers:

Maricarmen Garza (Texas RioGrande Legal Aid)

Amber Van Schuyver  (Texas RioGrande Legal Aid)

(Recorded October 29, 2020)

0:00

there we go hello folks uh this is Pablo

00:03

  Almaguer the director of the private bar and

00:05

government relations at texas rio grande

00:06

legal aid here with another podcast

00:08

episode in our series that we're doing

00:09

for the texas 

00:11

disaster uh legal help website excuse me

00:14

even that pronunciation is hard for me

00:15

right now i haven't had enough coffee

00:17

uh this morning and i won't say coffee

00:20

once again for stuart's purposes

00:21

he'll tell you what happened later on in

00:23

his place

00:24

but uh we have another great episode

00:26

here a couple of folks talking about

00:27

family law

00:28

issues during the disaster recovery and

00:29

disaster um when the session does hit

00:32

but before we do that let me just go

00:34

ahead and remind you all this this

00:35

project

00:36

is or this podcast is part of a project

00:38

that we list them up at

00:42

texasdisasterlegalhelp.simplejustice.org

00:43

that website has many resources for pro

00:45

bono even the audience also the

00:47

non-lawyers you know about disaster

00:48

assistance but this project itself let

00:50

me tell you what it's about before i go

00:51

into introducing my co-host

00:53

uh we are a coordinator project between

00:55

legal aid of northwest texas lone star

00:56

legal aid

00:57

and texas rio grande legal aid aimed

00:59

at improving access to justice for those

01:00

affected by disasters

01:02

our project allows both disaster

01:04

survivors and pro bono attorneys to

01:05

access critical resources in one place

01:07

while at the same time making it easier

01:09

to connect disaster survivors needing

01:10

legal help and volunteer

01:12

attorneys willing to provide it in this

01:13

way the project team hopes to increase

01:15

the number of disaster survivor clients

01:17

who receive high quality legal

01:18

assistance as they continue to navigate

01:20

the recovery process

01:21

after a disaster and provide the support

01:23

and mentorship for pro bono attorneys

01:26

that what they might need to achieve

01:27

that success so it's a dual purpose here

01:30

and we're going to add to those

01:31

resources here by having a great

01:33

discussion with the two speakers and to

01:34

introduce them are my co-host

01:36

belinda martinez from lone star legal

01:38

aid and stuart campbell from

01:40

legal aid of northwest texas so take it

01:42

away belinda

01:44

thank you pablo today's podcast is all

01:46

about disasters and their effect on

01:48

families

01:49

with us today are maricarmen garza and

01:51

amber van schuyver

01:53

maricarmen started her legal career

01:55

as a staff attorney for catholic

01:57

charities in houston

01:58

representing clients in removal

01:59

proceedings VAWA self petitions

02:02

political asylum cases

02:04

etc she is now the group coordinator for

02:06

the texas rio grande legal aids victims

02:08

rights group

02:09

and the director of trla's legal

02:11

alliance for survivors of abuse or the

02:13

lasa project maricarmen was appointed

02:15

to serve on the aba commission on

02:17

domestic and sexual violence and is a

02:19

member of the public policy committee

02:21

for the texas council on family violence

02:23

and currently serves on the boards of

02:25

the texas council of family violence and

02:27

the texas association against sexual

02:29

assault

02:30

amber is an attorney and the deputy

02:32

group coordinator of the domestic

02:33

violence and family law practice area at

02:35

the texas rio grande legal aid

02:37

she received her bachelor's of arts in

02:39

latin american studies political science

02:41

and spanish from the university of

02:42

kansas

02:43

and her doctorate jurisprudence from the

02:45

university of texas thank you for

02:47

joining us guys

02:50

you for having us

02:53

okay first question very broad question

02:55

but let's go ahead and dive on into the

02:56

subject

02:58

what effect do we see on families when

02:59

disasters occur

03:02

well um belinda obviously

03:05

um everyone's impacted anytime there's a

03:08

disaster

03:09

uh but these um effects uh really

03:13

take a toll on families especially any

03:16

family that may be also experiencing

03:18

family violence

03:19

um as you know people in any disaster

03:23

are often

03:24

faced with the option of sheltering in

03:27

place

03:28

or evacuating their home to go into a

03:30

shelter

03:31

also with their abuser so many uh

03:34

impacts occur uh to a family in general

03:37

um as they navigate you know what to do

03:40

in the aftermath of a

03:41

disaster but for those individuals who

03:44

are also experiencing domestic

03:46

violence the issues just get exacerbated

03:49

um the texas council on family violence

03:52

after harvey hurricane harvey did a

03:54

study

03:55

to to really understand what the impact

03:57

was not only

03:58

to the victims of domestic violence but

04:01

also to the systems who support them

04:03

and that study was really informative

04:05

into

04:06

you know just how everybody gets

04:09

impacted right

04:10

um not only family is going to be

04:13

experiencing

04:14

so many much more turmoil and and

04:17

stressors you know economic and

04:19

otherwise but

04:21

um the systems that are set up to

04:22

support them in case of a domestic

04:25

violence they might go into shelter but

04:26

the shelters might also be

04:28

impacted by the disaster during harvey

04:30

there were several shelters

04:31

that were also um flooded or had other

04:34

issues or their workers themselves

04:36

had to be evacuated and displaced so

04:39

um really understanding and being

04:41

prepared is something that

04:43

the basis of this study is and i believe

04:45

that we're going to be sharing

04:47

um that study with anybody who who wants

04:50

it who's participating because it does

04:52

elevate the areas that are of impact for

04:55

most families but especially for the

04:57

work that we do amber and i

04:59

work on the family law team for texas

05:03

rio grande

05:03

legal aid and we do notice that

05:06

individuals who are also experiencing

05:08

domestic violence

05:09

have a much harder time after

05:12

disaster strikes we have noticed

05:16

that the number of incidents of violence

05:18

continues to escalate

05:20

just highly after any in

05:24

any kind of disaster the numbers that we

05:26

get not only to the shelters that we

05:28

work with but to our caller

05:30

intake lines just also um multiply i

05:33

mean i think

05:34

right after covid we saw like

05:36

immediately like a 30%

05:37

spike of calls that we were receiving

05:40

and not only were we getting more calls

05:42

requesting um assistance for individuals

05:45

who were

05:46

also simultaneously experiencing

05:48

domestic violence but that

05:50

violence was much more severe than

05:52

before

05:54

and just to add to what maricarmen

05:56

was saying right we know

05:57

i mean disasters they cause economic

06:00

instability

06:01

right and they further isolate

06:04

families right from their support

06:06

networks and also from as maricarmen

06:08

mentioned services much needed services

06:10

and

06:11

these effects can be filled felt on

06:13

families across the board

06:15

if there were pre-existing mental health

06:17

condition issues right it might

06:19

exacerbate those

06:20

those issues or cause post-traumatic

06:23

stress

06:23

right but these effects are felt

06:26

particularly hard

06:28

for family suffering abuse

06:34

you're muted belinda

06:38

sorry i set up hot keys so it'd unmute

06:41

me just by pushing a button and they

06:42

never work

06:45

hard keys i think yeah exactly

06:49

okay well that's all going to be cut no

06:50

worries

06:52

but what i was going to ask is

06:55

i know the big disaster going on right

06:56

now is the covid crisis

06:58

what increase in cases like what type of

07:01

cases are you seeing coming in nowadays

07:04

we've seen an increase in all cases

07:07

across the board for the family team

07:10

we've seen a large increase in divorces

07:13

and modifications and also issues with

07:16

custody enforcement

07:17

but we've also seen a very high increase

07:20

in domestic violence right

07:22

and we know we've seen that play out

07:24

right um

07:25

multiple media outlets throughout texas

07:27

have reported on this right we've seen

07:29

um there was a study in dallas county

07:31

that found that there was a 12.5%

07:34

jump in domestic violence incidents in

07:36

that three week period

07:38

after the dallas stay at home orders were

07:40

in place

07:41

san antonio police department reported

07:43

an 18%

07:44

increase in family violence related

07:47

calls

07:48

in harris county they reported um there

07:51

was an increase

07:52

both in domestic violence related calls

07:54

and in the murder rate

07:56

um since covid's been in place domestic

07:58

violence related murderers

08:00

so we know that this situation is is

08:03

affecting families

08:04

and increasing the rate of intimate

08:07

partner violence

08:08

including family violence child abuse

08:11

sexual violence as well

08:14

you know i can ask a couple of questions

08:15

just to make sure again and i do this

08:17

almost every podcast but i want to make

08:18

sure that our speakers know about this

08:19

you know part of the purpose of this is

08:21

that we can place cases with pro bono

08:22

attorneys and you're going to have some

08:24

listeners who have been experienced you

08:25

know family law and they know about

08:26

these issues

08:27

some of them may be starting off and we

08:28

want to ensure assure them we're not

08:30

going to give them this high

08:32

domestic violence highly contested case

08:34

you don't want to place but if

08:35

there is one you provide the resources

08:37

for that but

08:38

i guess a two-part question first of all

08:40

i'm sure we all screen cases but second

08:42

of all if there is dv

08:43

we even provide some resources like

08:45

social workers to help you know uh the

08:46

victims kind of

08:47

uh maneuver you know all the benefits so

08:50

they can communicate just properly with

08:51

their clients and not worry about what's

08:53

going on so it's a two-parter question

08:55

sorry for the compound question

08:57

and i think that's a fantastic question

08:59

if if it is a case that's coming from

09:01

one of our legal aid organizations

09:03

um the clients not only have been

09:05

screened for domestic violence

09:07

but you you said it pablo we do work

09:09

with social workers and we also work

09:11

with

09:12

partner domestic violence agencies so we

09:14

are always trying to make sure that

09:16

they're completely connected to all the

09:18

resources

09:19

that can assist this individual move

09:21

forward in a safe place right we've done

09:23

safety planning we've got

09:25

contacts uh and of course the support to

09:28

keep moving forward

09:29

up for that individual because we know

09:31

that a divorce or a family law case

09:35

typically could be something that

09:36

escalates the violence

09:38

so we're always going to make sure that

09:40

we have

09:41

already done some safety planning with

09:43

our social workers

09:44

and that we have the resources to

09:47

connect them with

09:48

in our community so that they can stay

09:50

safe throughout the dependency of the

09:52

case as well

09:55

so my only connection i don't do family

09:57

law but i do

09:59

i'm in close communication with the

10:01

family law folks at the fort worth

10:02

office here at legal aid in northwest

10:04

texas and

10:05

um from just my anecdotal experience

10:09

that

10:09

they seem to be inundated with cases

10:11

right now and

10:12

i guess i want to get it from your

10:13

perspective you guys service the area

10:15

uh the trla services and so has your

10:18

family law units also taken a or seen an

10:21

increase in these types of cases

10:23

we have the the number of applications

10:26

we've received been receiving has

10:29

has gone up significantly since the

10:31

beginning of the pandemic

10:32

um and some over the summer i think

10:35

several months we

10:35

had almost double what our our number of

10:38

applications were from the prior years

10:40

so we've seen

10:41

a major increase in the number of

10:43

individuals seeking services

10:46

for a variety of reasons right um some

10:49

people

10:49

might just be deciding because of the

10:51

pandemic um

10:53

you know i really need to get to go

10:54

ahead and get that divorce when they've

10:56

been separated for many years and

10:58

those are great cases for our pro bono

11:00

attorneys right to assist with

11:02

um because those are relatively you know

11:04

folks have been separated for quite a

11:06

while those are relatively uncontested

11:07

cases

11:08

um pretty straightforward

11:13pause

i know you mentioned the disaster

11:15

resources are

11:16

restricted as well because the workers

11:18

the buildings that the resources

11:20

of programs are in get affected as well

11:22

uh

11:23

what effect has the remote proceedings

11:26

for those of you out there most know the

11:28

courts are doing zoom hearings and no

11:30

in-person hearings

11:31

does that have effect as far as the flow

11:33

of cases

11:34

and through the family courts most

11:37

definitely i think

11:38

initially there was a delay in all

11:41

hearings so

11:42

you know we had existing clients which

11:45

cases were not moving and then the

11:47

influx of new cases

11:49

made it a problem but then when we're

11:51

talking about individuals who may be

11:54

um you know who are indigent who may not

11:56

have all the resources to

11:58

get on a laptop and maybe the only

12:00

screen they have is a

12:01

it's a smartphone if at that but you

12:04

know reviewing documents together

12:06

getting prepared for court making sure

12:08

they have the wi-fi

12:10

access all those are factors that really

12:12

impact

12:13

our client community and has impacted to

12:16

some extent

12:17

our ability to to move these proceedings

12:19

forward

12:20

that said it's in i'm like very

12:24

impressed of their resiliency and their

12:25

ability to

12:27

still do this work and uh connect

12:30

sometimes our clients are are grateful

12:32

right especially in a domestic violence

12:34

situation

12:35

but they don't have to be in the

12:36

courtroom with their abuser so that's

12:38

one thing that has helped in terms of

12:40

safety

12:41

and feeling more comfortable with the

12:42

process is that they're doing a

12:44

difficult thing but they're not doing it

12:46

in front of the person that really hurt

12:47

them

12:48

and so there is a safety involved in

12:50

that

12:52

so the impact can be felt in different

12:54

areas but i know that

12:56

for the most part the access to

12:59

be able to get on court and be able to

13:02

understand the system if this is not

13:05

something that you

13:06

typically navigate in or you have a

13:08

language access issue

13:10

um those things just get a little bit

13:12

more complicated

13:14

i want to build on that in two two ways

13:16

so like

13:18

again i can only kind of speak from my

13:19

own perspective it's been kind of tricky

13:21

doing

13:22

housing cases via zoom um there's like

13:25

some weird emotional disconnect where

13:27

there's a human element that's missing

13:28

and i want to see are you guys seeing

13:30

that as well

13:31

in in your cases uh and if so can you

13:34

kind of expand upon that

13:36

i definitely think that's an issue it's

13:39

harder i mean especially when you're

13:40

talking about

13:41

very sensitive issues i mean the vast

13:44

majority of our clients right are

13:46

survivors of domestic violence or sexual

13:48

assault and

13:49

and trying to build that rapport

13:51

remotely can be very challenging

13:53

um i you know and and then

13:57

you know the proceedings and and not

13:59

always especially

14:00

right with some of the zoom proceedings

14:02

and the issues with interpretation

14:04

it can be confusing to clients exactly

14:06

what's going on

14:08

right and it does definitely create this

14:10

this disconnect that is making it it's

14:12

adding another

14:14

challenging element to this entire

14:16

process

14:17

it's just you know i i it's not the same

14:20

talking to the client you know over the

14:22

phone or be a zoom as it is having them

14:24

come into the office

14:26

and i think after the hearing when

14:28

you're done you know you're

14:30

off the hearing or you might have

14:32

another hearing and there's not that

14:33

time to console

14:35

or to just encourage you did great or

14:38

you know taking that break in between

14:41

you know

14:42

witnesses or so forth to just you know

14:44

give that encouragement that you need to

14:46

especially in these very difficult type

14:48

of cases i think that that's something

14:50

that is missing and i personally would

14:52

like to go back to

14:53

to in person at proceedings um because

14:57

that

14:57

is terribly missed and i think that um

15:00

it's hard to really check on clients

15:03

after proceeding

15:04

uh when again that means getting on

15:05

another remote call or phone call

15:07

versus just walking them down to their

15:10

car and and talking to them and and

15:12

processing what just happened

15:14

have you noticed any any disconnect

15:17

between

15:19

the the the finder of fact the judge

15:22

and in their ability has it affected the

15:25

judge's ability to kind of see emotion

15:27

whenever the person's not there

15:29

like because i know it's totally

15:31

different it's almost like you're

15:32

watching something on tv for me you know

15:34

um there's this weird

15:37

just disconnect whereas in

15:41

non-covid times being in the room and

15:42

like having to just see the

15:45

the mom crying who might be evicted was

15:47

like

15:48

a lot of times could could change change

15:50

the judges or at least

15:52

make them vulnerable to hear uh the

15:54

person out just a little bit more

15:56

have you noticed anything like that

15:58

especially in these cases that are

16:00

involved such high emotions like i can't

16:02

even imagine what it would be like

16:03

trying to convey to a judge the severity

16:05

of

16:06

an abusive situation uh

16:10

over zoom and not have that person be

16:13

right next to the person so can have you

16:15

experienced that

16:20pause

i can talk from my own personal

16:22

experience is that

16:23

yes there is a little bit of a

16:25

disconnect it is something that you're

16:27

seeing remotely versus

16:28

a live person crying in front of you and

16:31

i think um

16:32

another part of this in addition to the

16:34

fact that you're that

16:35

removed and i just think it's important

16:37

that we talk about it

16:39

is that these proceedings are being you

16:41

know broadcast via youtube

16:43

so here you are talking about something

16:46

super intimate very personal that you're

16:48

embarrassed to even share

16:50

with your best friends and now it's on a

16:52

youtube channel

16:54

who knows who's listening and who is

16:56

able to participate or what they do with

16:58

them

17:00

so that's something new for us that we

17:02

are definitely

17:03

informing clients when we know that the

17:05

client that particular courts do

17:08

zoom live stream uh on to youtube

17:11

you know talking about that issue and of

17:14

course do we need to file a motion to

17:16

restrict the broadcast

17:18

in a protective order case so additional

17:20

factors that may

17:21

impact a client's willingness or a

17:24

victim's ability

17:25

and willingness to fully share because

17:27

they don't know

17:29

who's in the courtroom at least when

17:30

you're in person and it's an open court

17:32

you still know who's in there right and

17:35

this is like

17:36

really not having any control of what

17:37

happens to your story

17:39

who's watching is it an employer is it

17:41

you know another child that maybe goes

17:43

to school with your kids it's uh

17:46

very challenging and i think that adds

17:48

an added factor

17:50

that not only maybe is the court going

17:52

to be remotely seeing or observing

17:54

you know being distant but also that you

17:58

have

17:58

somebody who's maybe monitoring

18:00

themselves as well

18:01

because they don't know where that

18:02

information is going to go so

18:05

it's just an added layer to think about

18:08

i do hear that actually when all this

18:10

started that there was enough

18:11

uptake in mediations and arbitrations i

18:14

guess you know and

18:15

alternative dispute resolution because

18:16

of this exact issue like when you were

18:18

told

18:18

it's one thing to tell somebody you know

18:20

you're going to be live in court saying

18:21

this like you're going to be on youtube

18:22

saying this and they're like okay let me

18:24

go back and work on this which might

18:25

work in our favor some of the pro bono

18:26

council and

18:27

some of the bigger cities have disputed

18:28

resolution centers dros

18:30

uh you know the domestic relations

18:32

offices and that might help you with

18:33

that

18:34

to play the devil's advocate here uh a

18:35

little bit about this the video stuff um

18:38

i have to say that you know about like

18:40

eight or ten years ago i helped amber i

18:42

think it was you remember we did a skype

18:44

hearing for a client

18:45

those of us would practice in the border

18:46

area you know that if our client when

18:48

the

18:48

disaster hits and the people population

18:51

is very mobile and they go

18:52

north of a checkpoint you can't get him

18:54

back you know for testimony

18:56

we got to actually really litigate hard

18:58

to get somebody to skype

18:59

uh the victim you know to skype in from

19:02

that and that was like ten years ago

19:03

that and the judge

19:04

i'm sure now it's a whole different

19:06

perspective which i think is positive

19:07

for our clients for those of you

19:08

speaking of the cases

19:10

your client might move somewhere else

19:11

you can't consult with them but at least

19:13

now the judges are comfortable with the

19:14

technology and maybe

19:15

amber you can probably explain how ten

19:16

years ago it was like a novel thing

19:18

and you know having to carry the tv into

19:20

the courtroom and putting it up

19:22

and now it's standard par for the course

19:25

of course right go ahead

19:28

and i think it's it i mean like you said

19:31

pablo it's a

19:32

great advantage for especially for

19:34

survivors who may have fled

19:36

right because of abuse and now they're

19:38

in a different state

19:39

and maybe there's proceedings going on

19:41

back here in texas right

19:43

they can continue to be part of the

19:44

proceedings right like my maricarmen said

19:46

but not have to actually be

19:48

in the courtroom and for multiple

19:50

reasons i mean especially for

19:52

for our client population that we serve

19:54

right indigent

19:55

i mean traveling back and forth right

19:57

and can be very expensive so i

19:59

definitely think

20:00

i mean there are some things about the

20:01

remote proceedings that i hope

20:03

stay after the pandemic because there are

20:05

definitely some advantages that we've

20:07

seen

20:08

and i mean the advantage for me is i may

20:10

be in houston but i can take cases

20:12

anywhere for the same reason because i

20:14

can participate remotely i do not have

20:16

to take a full day of travel

20:18

or worse so when i know some of our

20:21

offices may be at capacity

20:23

and there's a really you know high

20:25

priority case that came in that

20:27

you know even though i'm so far away

20:29

that i might still be able to

20:30

fully engage and take a case uh remotely

20:34

has allowed not only me but other legal

20:36

aid attorneys to

20:38

take cases in areas far away from where

20:40

they typically practice

20:43

and the great advantage right is if you

20:44

have a if you're a pro bono attorney and

20:46

you want to get

20:48

experience practicing in a different

20:49

area right you have the advantage of you

20:52

can also watch the court's proceedings

20:54

on youtube to get a feel for what it's

20:55

like to practice in that area before you

20:57

actually take on a case there

21:00

which i think is really helpful right

21:02

because most of us wouldn't have time to

21:04

go

21:05

drive you know some to a different

21:07

county to see

21:08

to observe a court hearing right but

21:10

because everything is on youtube

21:12

um for the most part you can observe

21:14

another another

21:15

um court's hearings and see what it's

21:18

like to practice in that area if you're

21:19

interested in taking

21:20

you know taking cases in a different in

21:22

a different area as well

21:24

I’m telling you amber you're gonna take my job

21:25

here if i'm not careful that was very

21:27

good

21:28

i know but that's a great point um one

21:31

thing

21:31

i know my legal aid is worried about

21:33

it's like we want to keep those zoom

21:35

hearing comings we want to keep that as

21:36

an option

21:37

because before covid it was like pulling

21:39

teeth like you said to get them on skype

21:41

or

21:42

even a phone call in and i know with our

21:45

client base and even when i was at the

21:46

attorney general's office in the child

21:48

support division

21:49

you can send your hate mail now

21:53

um for our clients to come in for

21:56

a child support modification or

21:57

enforcement that meant taking a day off

22:00

work that meant

22:01

traveling that and then if it got reset

22:03

or dismissed or there was a service

22:05

issue that meant another day they were

22:06

gonna have to take off which they can't

22:08

afford

22:09

and their jobs may not be so flexible

22:12

with them taking the time off

22:14

so the zoom hearing has been a godsend

22:16

in that case

22:17

and also i know for those legal aid out

22:20

there

22:21

that do reduce fee not free like we do

22:24

they don't have to charge the traveling

22:26

or the mileage so that saves grant money

22:28

that they can use on other cases

22:31

so yeah um pros and cons to the remote

22:33

hearings but

22:34

i know for our client base it's a good

22:36

thing so

22:38

for those of you who don't like it out

22:39

there get use to it please

22:41

it it's it's helpful it really benefits

22:44

a lot more people

22:45

i'm not arguing against everyone i just

22:47

i uh

22:49

yeah i prefer in person i mean it's just

22:52

i mean but i mostly do housing so i

22:54

can't really speak to that well like

22:56

amber maricarman said

22:58

um you kind of do you

23:01

lose a little bit of the human element

23:02

and sometimes especially domestic

23:04

violence victims they're already

23:06

reluctant to tell their story and

23:08

like they said now they're on youtube

23:09

it's not a closed

23:11

courtroom and yeah it just

23:14

i mean it adds it has difficulties and

23:17

it

23:18

has a lot of pros as well yeah i think

23:21

for

23:21

a pro bono perspective it's all probably

23:24

a positive

23:25

um because everything is going to be

23:27

more accessible

23:28

um witnesses that you may not be able to

23:31

get down to the courthouse because they

23:33

can't take you know a full day but

23:35

they'll be able to be on call and just

23:37

you know from wherever they are

23:39

be able to participate i think that

23:41

there's definitely pros and cons and

23:44

and hopefully when covid is no longer

23:47

the issue

23:48

that we get to keep some of the benefits

23:50

of it um now that we know it works

23:53

speaking on the other end of issues and

23:55

talking about some of the problems you

23:56

might face when their disaster does hit

23:58

and the

23:58

population becomes pretty mobile you

24:00

can't find them anywhere as we all know

24:02

anybody who does family law maybe most

24:04

litigation services process notice of

24:06

the lawsuit that's going to be like the

24:08

biggest

24:08

build-up in work initially once you get

24:10

that done then you kind of you know get

24:12

to your what you learn in law school

24:14

but on the practical side of it you all

24:16

have any um

24:18

experiences or tips you know on how to

24:20

maybe be able to serve the respondent of

24:21

the opponent now

24:22

with the possible use of social media i

24:24

think an online posting by the office of

24:27

court administration

24:28

uh you know and substitute the service

24:30

like what's your experience been so that

24:32

Our partners  when they pick up a case

24:33

and the respondent is gone and they have

24:34

to serve them

24:35

what can they do

24:38

well you always have right substitute

24:40

service under

24:41

under 106 right where after attempting

24:44

to serve someone personally

24:46

you can then request the court to have

24:49

them served

24:50

by leaving the citation with anyone over

24:53

the age of 16

24:55

at the residence where they're likely to

24:57

be found

24:58

so that's always an option right you

25:00

have to attempt personal service first

25:02

and um file and you actually have to

25:04

have two affidavits right the affidavit

25:06

that you attempted service and then you

25:08

also have to have the affidavit

25:10

um that they're likely to be found at

25:12

that residence and it's as likely to

25:14

serve them right as regular service

25:16

would

25:16

um but one advantage that we've had and

25:19

i

25:20

i think it's you know this was in the

25:22

works before the pandemic

25:23

right is for individuals that you can't

25:26

find right where you would have to do

25:28

um service by publication right and

25:31

there was a change

25:32

um to the law here over the summer um

25:35

that allows for a citation by

25:37

publication

25:38

um online and it's through the um

25:42

the oca right they have set up a website

25:45

um that you can do publication online

25:47

and it's particularly

25:49

helpful for indigent individuals because

25:51

if you have a statement of inability to

25:53

pay

25:54

on file you can actually do the

25:56

publication online instead of having to

25:58

do posting

25:59

or i'm sorry publication in a newspaper

26:02

so

26:03

um it does it does help with that that

26:05

process

26:08

that's interesting uh i'm sure we have

26:10

the resources and materials you know

26:12

available for our pro bono if they ever

26:13

want to

26:14

ask about those motions i think i'm

26:15

actually going to email you about that

26:16

soon i didn't realize this

26:20

well just for our pro bono attorneys out

26:23

there that

26:25

may take a volunteer case and it ends up

26:28

being a domestic violence and dv case

26:30

what's some good screening techniques

26:32

and if they do find themselves in the

26:34

middle of the case

26:35

what can they do what kind of

26:36

protections can we get out there

26:38

either through the court or through

26:39

other resources

26:43

well there's many different types to

26:46

to screen uh domestic violence and i

26:49

know that we included

26:50

and some of the materials that we wanted

26:52

to share with anybody who views or

26:54

listens to this podcast

26:56

but the most important thing is to to

26:58

listen to what the

27:00

individual is telling you and to believe

27:04

if there is indeed an allegation of

27:06

family violence

27:08

um quite typically family violence

27:10

offenses are the most

27:12

under reported offenses ever so

27:15

just because there is an absence of

27:17

police reports or no criminal cases

27:20

does not mean that there is not a

27:22

domestic violence

27:23

situation occurring um and and so

27:27

to look for those uh other issues

27:30

uh or try to make sure that there's a

27:32

police report to bring it up

27:34

it's not going to be there most of the

27:35

time because it really

27:37

is incredibly underreported and

27:40

sometimes even when they do report

27:42

there may not be a report that is uh

27:44

available

27:46

for a victim to to prove that this

27:47

happened or that they did

27:49

indeed complain about it but one of the

27:52

tools that i think is

27:53

incredibly helpful um is the power and

27:56

control

27:56

tool because sometimes not only are you

27:59

looking at

28:00

um the outward manifestation of this

28:03

imbalance

28:04

when there's domestic violence but there

28:06

might be economic abuse

28:08

there may be the use of children there

28:09

may be the use of

28:11

you know immigration as a tool so it's

28:14

quite often really asking those

28:16

questions

28:17

may give you as an attorney you know a

28:20

really great insight of what that power

28:22

dynamic

28:23

is like um when i typically meet with a

28:26

client that's one of the first things

28:28

that i do as a homework right their

28:29

little thought

28:30

is gonna be here's a power and control

28:32

wheel um

28:33

and and it's a material that's been

28:35

widely published right as

28:37

how uh power dynamic occurs in a

28:40

relationship with there's violence

28:42

they will highlight a lot of the issues

28:44

and then that's my

28:46

screening tool to ask tell me about this

28:48

situation

28:50

tell me about the bank who keeps the

28:51

cards you know can you

28:53

um do you have access to any of the

28:55

financial information and really start

28:57

crafting

28:58

that that um narrative

29:02

right based on what their experience is

29:04

so that we can understand

29:05

what the dynamics are whether violence

29:08

was used

29:09

throughout the marriage or just the one

29:10

time or it's just that impending threat

29:13

of violence um it's really important to

29:15

to understand and then connect them with

29:17

resources that may be able to

29:19

to assist that survivor do more safety

29:22

planning

29:25

right and i think maricarmen brings up

29:26

a really important point right is that

29:28

we have to recognize that not all

29:30

domestic violence situations look the

29:32

same

29:33

right um you have verbal abuse emotional

29:36

abuse right financial abuse is very very

29:39

common and often

29:40

underlooked in these situations and i

29:42

think

29:43

it's so important to for you know

29:45

attorneys to ask these questions very

29:47

very open-ended and non-judgmentally and

29:50

be careful about the language you're

29:52

using right because

29:53

um by asking questions you know in a

29:56

certain well

29:57

why didn't you make a police report

29:58

right you're

30:00

causing you know could possibly be

30:02

causing the victim to

30:03

shut down and not share any more

30:05

information right so we have to really

30:08

think about how you're asking these

30:10

questions and trying to get this

30:11

information in a very

30:13

you know non-judgmental very open ended

30:16

way right because if

30:17

if a survivor is is opening up and

30:20

sharing with you their story that they

30:21

may not have told anyone else right

30:23

it's very important that we not um

30:26

be the ones to you know scare them away

30:29

from talking about it in the future

30:30

right um and make them feel like they're

30:33

being judged

30:34

um you know so it's it's very important

30:36

like maricarman said to

30:38

you know to listen to believe right

30:41

and um to provide safety planning um

30:47

oh sorry i didn't mean to stop but uh

30:49

you know i wanted to say something

30:50

because

30:50

the oldest person here in the room uh

30:53

and somebody you know i did a good

30:54

amount of uh family law violence

30:56

cases um and i remember that i was

30:59

surprised i changed my interview style

31:01

when i read about battered spouse syndrome

31:03

i whenever i read about ptsd you know

31:06

and the dsm4

31:07

how it wasn't even in the dsm-4 uh where

31:10

the manual is for diagnosis

31:12

for even like the ptsd was there for

31:14

like you know vietnam veterans when they

31:15

returned back from the vietnam war and

31:17

then eventually you know

31:18

now i think it's been added the battered

31:20

spouse syndrome and how

31:21

you just said if you don't you're not

31:23

careful what you're saying to the person

31:25

you're not listening

31:26

they will shut down and that would

31:27

frustrate not only the attorney but

31:29

even the court sometimes and you have to

31:31

kind of educate the court why isn't the

31:33

client remembering things because you're

31:34

having to put them into the situation

31:36

that put them in

31:37

so you have a disaster you have violence

31:39

going on imagine all that's carrying

31:40

upon them

31:41

uh so i think it's a very important

31:43

point and again i want to refer back to

31:45

our social workers and our resources how

31:47

they can help you communicate with your

31:49

client and then having the client be

31:50

a better communicator to the court too

31:52

because it's going to matter

31:54

and and i think you know really

31:56

identifying all the different areas

31:58

where a victim may be

31:59

impacted right it may not just be the

32:02

the family bonds which is really

32:03

important to address

32:04

but the financial the economic um as

32:07

you're working

32:08

through any kind of case with somebody

32:11

who's a survivor of violence you need to

32:12

be

32:13

cognizant of how important you know that

32:15

financial stability

32:17

is going to be right and if you're

32:19

talking with about somebody who may be

32:21

also uh maybe undocumented or has like

32:24

an immigration issue you know the

32:25

importance to

32:27

have certain things you know awarded

32:29

because it's going to be impossible

32:31

in a situation that they may be to to

32:34

you know

32:35

get new financing to get a car to do

32:37

those things

32:38

so really understanding all of the

32:40

circumstances

32:42

is gonna not only create a better

32:44

outcome for for that individual but for

32:46

the family and the children who are also

32:48

impacted so uh

32:52

i don't know how deep into this we want

32:54

to get but i'm learning a lot

32:56

um a lot of it i already kind of knew

32:59

the gist of but i'm learning it

33:00

more more concretely here and so what

33:04

and i think of myself as someone who's

33:07

good at doing intake and doing client

33:09

interviews but maybe i'm bad at it now

33:11

uh but so i want to ask like the example

33:14

amber you gave was

33:16

and let me preface this by saying i

33:18

rarely interact with individuals who

33:20

at least are coming to us because of

33:22

instances of domestic violence um

33:24

but sometimes i do and so for my own

33:26

edification

33:28

say for example there was an instance in

33:30

which an intake or a client

33:32

was the victim of of domestic violence

33:35

and they didn't file a police report or

33:37

call the police

33:39

you use that example and i'm actually

33:41

genuinely curious how do you ask that

33:43

how do you figure that out because it

33:46

might be something that's

33:47

pretty common i know we know it's very

33:49

common and if we have a pro bono

33:50

attorney in the same circumstance

33:52

i'm sure they would want to know like

33:53

how do i phrase this to

33:55

not make this person clam up

33:58

so i and typically what i'll say is

34:00

instead of asking

34:02

you know did you know instead of saying

34:05

well why didn't you make a police report

34:07

i'll ask it very open-ended right so

34:10

um did you talk to anyone about what

34:13

happened

34:14

you know um you know was there you know

34:17

you can ask it right instead of saying

34:19

why didn't you make a police report you

34:21

could say

34:22

you know was there any report to law

34:24

enforcement made

34:25

and also i think it helps to give

34:27

context about why you're asking about

34:29

this

34:30

right so saying you know this is

34:32

something that sometimes might get

34:34

brought

34:34

get asked in court you know i'm not i'm

34:37

not you know

34:38

asked this is the reason why i'm asking

34:40

you this right to give that contact

34:42

so the victim doesn't feel like okay

34:45

they're judging me right um and shut

34:48

down

34:52

and i guess you want to remember too

34:53

like you know the situation i'm sorry

34:55

interrupt but i mean

34:56

i know this by the way i interviewed my

34:57

client like if they're in a disaster you

35:00

want to ask them

35:00

so was your car flooded could you even

35:03

go somewhere could you use your phone

35:04

where your lights on

35:06

you know and as you're kind of asking

35:07

these questions and you know now apply

35:09

i think the client realizes oh yeah

35:11

you're right and they realize now okay

35:13

we're in this together

35:14

and you're right about that thank you

35:15

for cleaning me and moving me forward

35:16

that's what i would especially for me as

35:18

a male to interview most of our clients

35:19

you know 80-90%

35:20

were female there was definitely a

35:22

shutdown like this guy's not gonna know

35:23

and once you identify that way and kind

35:25

of say let's go through the process and

35:27

see what's gonna matter

35:28

paint the picture what happened you know

35:30

then i think they feel more comfortable

35:31

talking to you once you gain that trust

35:35

and i think it's it's really helpful if

35:36

you lead into it like that right

35:38

so you know now i want to ask you some

35:41

questions

35:42

about your relationship and and how your

35:45

spouse your significant other treated

35:46

you during the relationship

35:48

if at any time you need to take a break

35:50

or you

35:51

you feel overwhelmed we can you know we

35:54

can

35:54

stop talking right to let them know that

35:57

it's okay

35:57

right because i mean we know talking

36:01

about the incidents right

36:02

um can bring up secondary trauma for

36:05

survivors and so we don't we don't want

36:07

to cause that and so it's important to

36:09

let them know it's okay if you need to

36:11

take a break

36:12

right and i think it's why it's

36:13

important for attorneys that are working

36:15

with

36:16

the survivors to understand the effects

36:18

of trauma and how

36:19

it plays out in different ways for

36:20

different survivors so that

36:22

if they see those reactions um that they

36:25

can you know say okay well let's let's

36:27

take a break right now you know

36:28

um and and like maricarmen said we're

36:31

we're very fortunately glad to have our

36:34

social work team and also have

36:36

these wonderful connections you know

36:37

with our shelter partners

36:40

to assist and support survivors

36:42

throughout this process because

36:45

it is you know it is very very

36:47

challenging

36:49

and i think um in addition to once we

36:52

get that story out

36:54

the first time um it's so important to

36:56

not have them like repeat it

36:58

over and over again because that

37:00

re-traumatizes

37:01

uh sometimes by the time they get to our

37:03

office or to speak with one of us

37:05

they've already had to tell the story

37:07

you know if there was law enforcement

37:09

law enforcement

37:10

cps i mean maybe a shelter worker and

37:14

so the more they have to retell that

37:16

experience i know that

37:18

um it it really impacts their ability

37:22

their trauma threshold i mean it's just

37:24

over

37:26

the top at that point so we try to

37:28

minimize that so if we're working with

37:30

somebody we

37:31

hopefully have already a pretty good

37:33

description and fleshed out situation

37:36

so that you can start working with an

37:38

idea of what that is

37:40

about and then maybe only when you're

37:41

about to get to court you can go

37:43

and really start looking into it some

37:45

more in how you're going to present that

37:48

evidence

37:50

uh and you guys mentioned earlier

37:52

different types of domestic violence

37:53

i think one of the things you need to be

37:55

aware of when you're screening is

37:57

sometimes it's not the traditional or

38:00

mainstream but what we think of as

38:02

domestic violence

38:03

directed physical or verbal abuse at the

38:06

person

38:07

sometimes it's indirect they threatened

38:09

pets

38:10

they had one client

38:14

threaten to burn all of her artwork if

38:16

she left

38:18

which she had a lot and some of it she

38:19

had done herself which were

38:21

is irreplaceable and also i see a lot of

38:24

financial abuse

38:25

where they don't have any control of the

38:28

funds

38:29

um i had one poor lady she didn't even

38:31

know what bank accounts they had her

38:33

name wasn't on any other credit card she

38:35

didn't know if he had a retirement

38:36

account she didn't know if they had a

38:37

mortgage on the house

38:39

and that's why she was coming to legal

38:41

aid because she literally had finally

38:42

left

38:42

but she didn't have anything and just

38:46

be aware it may not be what you're

38:48

thinking of as abuse when you're asking

38:51

those questions

38:54

exactly and and i think we we have to be

38:57

really careful on how we ask the

38:59

questions as well

39:00

um because although some of it like

39:03

financial abuse or

39:04

some of the other kind of um abusive

39:07

manipulative control that may exist may

39:10

not be actionable

39:11

for purposes of a protective order or

39:14

for purposes

39:15

of you know finding that there was a

39:17

finding of family violence as

39:19

it's described in the family code it

39:22

really matters for the court at the time

39:24

that they make a decision on certain

39:26

items but many times i will talk to a

39:29

survivor

39:30

and they'll say it's only verbal that's

39:32

only verbal that i've experienced or

39:34

emotional abuse

39:36

but it's important that we ask what

39:37

words were used right

39:39

because if the word is like you're a

39:41

terrible mother or you're

39:42

worthless it's one thing versus i am

39:45

going to kill you

39:46

you know it may be a verbal threat but

39:48

it is something that

39:50

is indeed actionable and that it is a

39:52

basis

39:53

for family violence um either protective

39:55

order and or

39:57

other measures that could give some

39:59

relief

40:00

in a family law court and we do want to

40:04

share

40:04

right for the attorneys out there that

40:05

are wondering kind of how

40:07

is there a guide or something right on

40:09

the right questions to ask

40:11

the aba the commission on domestic

40:13

violence did put out some materials it's

40:16

a tool um specifically for attorneys to

40:19

screen for domestic violence and it

40:21

walks you through some of these

40:22

questions that we're talking about right

40:24

in a very open-ended way

40:26

so like one of the examples of the

40:27

questions right is there anything

40:29

um that goes on in your home that makes

40:31

you feel afraid right so it's very

40:33

open-ended right and it addresses a lot

40:35

of different types of violence that

40:37

that survivors might be experiencing

40:39

right including

40:40

um like belinda mentioned abuse of pets

40:42

right

40:43

um economic abuse so that is a resource

40:47

that that

40:48

is available for attorneys when they're

40:49

wondering right how how can i phrase

40:51

these questions

40:56

i wanted to say something that kind of

40:58

ties in not only to what amber said but

41:00

you know stuart you mentioned earlier

41:02

that you know you don't

41:03

maybe deal directly with somebody

41:07

who experiences you know domestic

41:08

violence because you're doing housing

41:11

but what i would tell you is that the

41:12

rates are one in four women

41:14

in this country um are or will

41:17

experience domestic violence during

41:19

their lifetime is that the truth is that

41:21

you are engaging

41:22

with these individuals um and you know

41:25

it's really important that even in in a

41:27

non

41:28

you know family law related situation

41:30

where you are

41:32

working with somebody that you are

41:33

cognizant that they are either

41:35

a survivor of violence or sexual assault

41:37

and that

41:38

is impacting sometimes in some of the

41:40

other areas of law that we work with

41:43

right because uh it impacts everything

41:46

um so i i want you to know that whatever

41:49

area of law you practice of these tools

41:52

are really effective

41:53

and it'll give you a better

41:54

understanding of how you can best serve

41:56

your clients

41:57

and that's what i wanted to mention uh

41:59

that the finding of family

42:01

violence you know we're talking about

42:02

that and how these things are how you

42:04

can identify it and you get that but

42:05

then the finding of family violence on

42:07

the legal aspect of it

42:08

you mentioned it in brief but it does

42:10

affect uh custody

42:11

issues it will affect the division of

42:13

property if they're married over 10

42:14

years it can actually mean alimony or

42:16

i think spousal maintenance and even for

42:19

like

42:19

leases and housing it does matter and so

42:23

i want to make sure that our pro bono

42:24

attorneys maybe don't deal with dv

42:25

issues often

42:26

to realize how important it is and why

42:28

sometimes it becomes sort of a battle of

42:30

like saying you know

42:31

was there a family of violence on both

42:33

sides thing because they might have the

42:34

respondent and saying that there wasn't

42:35

on my side

42:36

but it is a very important tool to use

42:38

if you do have it you have that client

42:40

space with you with a protective order

42:41

there's a finding somewhere

42:43

it can apply many different things

42:45

that's one of the things i do want to

42:47

touch on

42:47

before we uh leave the podcast

42:51

just on protective orders we've

42:52

mentioned protective orders a couple

42:54

times

42:54

during this program but what are the

42:57

different

42:58

types of protective orders what

42:59

protections should they offer and then

43:00

how do you actually get one for your

43:02

client if they need one

43:07

amber do you want to address this one

43:10

and i'd be happy to

43:11

to talk about it as well but i i think

43:14

that definitely

43:15

um you can cover this and i might touch

43:18

up

43:18

at the end so there are

43:21

there are a number of different types of

43:22

protective orders and some are more well

43:24

known than others right typically

43:26

what most people think of when they

43:27

think about protective words is the

43:29

family violence protective order

43:31

but there's also protective orders for

43:33

stalking um

43:34

sexual assault or sexual abuse um and

43:37

for human trafficking as well um

43:41

and um stalking sorry i'm not sure if i

43:44

said that one already

43:45

um so those are available

43:48

and they have different requirements

43:50

right and different lengths of time that

43:51

they can be in effect for um for example

43:54

the family violence protective order

43:56

requires

43:56

um that the person that you're seeking a

43:59

protective order against either be

44:00

a family member or foreign resident of

44:03

that the household

44:04

right and you can also obtain a

44:07

protective order

44:08

in situations where um maybe

44:11

a husband and wife they're separated

44:14

right and the

44:16

the um we'll just use this for example

44:18

right the husband's

44:20

new significant other is now um

44:23

is now threatening and harassing and um

44:26

maybe even assaulted on the applicant

44:28

they can actually file for a family

44:30

violence protective order against that

44:31

third party because there's that

44:33

that connection that that nexus there

44:35

with the relationship

44:36

um so family violence protective orders

44:39

we

44:40

think about you have to think about is

44:41

there this required relationship right

44:44

but with um sexual assault stalking and

44:47

human trafficking there's no

44:49

relationship required

44:50

i think that's what confuses a lot of

44:52

practitioners who don't

44:54

who aren't um who don't normally take

44:56

these cases is that there's no

44:58

there's no relationship requirement um

45:00

for those stalking sexual assault or

45:02

human trafficking protective orders and

45:05

those can be granted for up to a

45:06

lifetime of the

45:08

victim and the um the perpetrator right

45:11

um so it's it's very very helpful for

45:14

survivors of stalking and sexual abuse

45:17

right to be able to obtain those for up

45:18

to a lifetime

45:20

um and then for family violence

45:21

protective orders typically

45:23

the duration is two years although they

45:24

can be longer in instances where there's

45:27

um what assault that's considered a

45:29

felony right such as strangulation or

45:32

serious bodily injury

45:33

um you can obtain a protective order for

45:35

longer or if there's been

45:37

two prior protective orders with finding

45:40

a family violence you can have a

45:41

projective order for more than two years

45:47

yeah one thing that i will add up with

45:49

the non-family violence

45:51

protective orders the one that may apply

45:53

for perhaps a co-worker

45:55

uh somebody that maybe is in the same

45:57

school with you and

45:59

maybe somebody that was an acquaintance

46:01

um and

46:02

you know those are so important and

46:04

sometimes individuals feel

46:06

so lost in their ability of what

46:09

recourses they may have

46:11

um and it could really make a big

46:12

difference um what we

46:14

know is that when you're in a family

46:16

bonds uh relationship or were you in a

46:18

family

46:19

you at least know what the other party

46:21

is about to do right either because

46:23

you've shared you know some life

46:25

experiences together

46:27

you may know the patterns you may know

46:28

whatever they go to work but when you're

46:30

talking

46:31

about somebody that is merely an

46:33

acquaintance it's a lot

46:35

more scary because you have no idea

46:38

really

46:39

where they may be what they're doing

46:40

their their patterns and there's

46:42

it's much harder to safety plan when you

46:44

don't know the other

46:45

individual so um those are

46:48

are challenging but the requirements are

46:50

going to be substantially different

46:52

and also it's a fantastic tool um

46:56

in in the many tools that somebody can

46:58

do to stay safe

47:00

one of the things that i i think is

47:01

great for in terms of a pro bono

47:03

attorney who may be interested in doing

47:06

a protective order case is that there's

47:08

such a quick

47:09

turnaround right this is not going to be

47:11

a case that lasts two to three years

47:14

because from filing to the time that you

47:16

go to court prove your case

47:17

you know it's going to be 14 to 20 days

47:20

depending on what jurisdiction you're in

47:22

and then maybe there might be a

47:23

continuance but it's something that

47:25

you know does not take too much of your

47:28

time and that there's going to be ample

47:29

of support and resources

47:31

um for somebody who may be interested in

47:34

doing this work

47:35

that is so needed and could really

47:37

change

47:38

the life of somebody

47:41

and for our pro bono attorneys out there

47:44

thinking of helping what other type of

47:46

cases would be good

47:48

for them to take on so

47:51

since um the pandemic started right

47:54

we've seen

47:54

a major need for increases in

47:57

enforcement actions

47:59

and the really great thing about filing

48:00

enforcement actions is they also

48:02

include the availability of attorney's

48:04

fees right for the prevailing party

48:06

so um enforcements can include things

48:09

like we've seen

48:10

um an increase of need for assistance

48:12

with enforcement for

48:14

things like spousal maintenance right

48:16

which for a survivor can be

48:17

very important in just maintaining that

48:20

financial

48:21

stability right um increase in

48:24

needs for enforcement of possession and

48:26

access orders because we know

48:28

we've seen throughout the pandemic

48:30

there's been an increase in

48:32

imparting in um especially abusers right

48:36

not following the um court order

48:38

possession and access schedule

48:40

and so filing an enforcement um to get

48:44

to have the child returned and the

48:46

current order followed is very important

48:49

in the past we've been able to typically

48:50

call law enforcement but

48:52

with the pandemic law enforcement has

48:54

been much more reluctant and less likely

48:56

to go out and

48:57

try to recover the child even if there's

48:58

a court order in place

49:00

and so this is another really um these

49:03

are very quick cases right it's

49:05

you know file your motion set it for a

49:07

hearing um

49:09

usually get a hearing pretty quickly on

49:10

these um and

49:12

and you have the availability right of

49:14

getting attorney's fees as well which is

49:15

which is great

49:18

and i think you know just getting a

49:19

divorce for somebody that's been

49:20

separated for

49:21

many many years and that now you're in a

49:24

situation where there may be

49:26

you know either covid or any kind of

49:28

other disaster

49:29

and like it's an impetus to get things

49:32

squared away right either to

49:33

clear title to property because you've

49:35

been separated for so long and you want

49:37

to make sure that

49:38

if something happens to you that you

49:40

know all the affairs are in order you

49:41

know so those things are

49:43

things that we're starting to see

49:45

individuals that just been separated for

49:47

a long time and never got to the next

49:48

step of

49:49

divorcing so those are also cases that

49:53

are pretty straightforward

49:54

and usually most of their assets and

49:57

children

49:58

are either grown or there's already

49:59

orders in place for those children so

50:02

it makes it just a process that may need

50:04

somebody to walk them through it

50:06

but it makes a big difference to to the

50:09

individuals

50:11

and that's another aspect um i think

50:13

people kind of forget about

50:15

especially if they are practicing family

50:17

law out there and want to volunteer

50:19

this podcast and this website's all

50:22

about disaster and they

50:23

don't think well i'm a family lawyer

50:24

what does that have to do with disaster

50:26

and to that i have to say i was actually

50:29

hired by lone star's disaster relief

50:31

unit from the oag because

50:33

they were getting family cases for title

50:36

clearing purposes

50:37

like you said married separated for a

50:40

very long time

50:42

both names still on the title they 

50:44

going for recovery funds

50:46

both owners had a sign she has no clue

50:48

where the husband is

50:49

she can't get the recovery funds until

50:51

we take care of this

50:52

and you take care of this by getting the

50:54

divorce so

50:56

yes and usually they're very simple

50:58

usually the only thing is the house

51:00

and maybe some service issues sometimes

51:03

i was able to

51:04

fairly quickly and they were all about

51:06

signing paperwork so

51:08

that's those simple divorces are what 60

51:10

days if everything goes really smoothly

51:12

so

51:13

and not very time consuming not not a

51:15

lot of hours and hours and hours of work

51:17

so but but still needing an attorney

51:19

because of the property issue right it's

51:21

not going to be something that they

51:22

could just go

51:23

fill out a form and not really

51:25

understand so having that guidance and

51:27

that knowledge

51:28

uh it's going to go a long way in

51:30

protecting everybody and to make sure

51:32

that

51:32

you know property is distributed or you

51:35

know they can get the relief that they

51:36

need

51:37

which makes a huge difference in their

51:39

life because if they don't get their

51:40

house repaired

51:41

they're possibly facing homelessness or

51:43

staying on a relative's couch for months

51:45

until

51:46

they can find a new place which as we

51:48

know affordable housing in the city

51:49

after disaster is

51:51

non-existent

51:54

okay i think let's see pablo the

51:58

time cop still i mean we got what about

52:00

five minutes left

52:02

we are about seven minutes or so

52:04

actually we're still there and we're

52:05

pretty good

52:06

at this pablo the time cop wow come on

52:09

man wait y'all gotta use that

52:12

i'm the oldest person here just kind of

52:14

call me father time that's what you

52:25

anyone who works at legal aid and really

52:28

anyone who works at legal aid or pays attention 

52:29

knows the bad stories about family

52:32

violence

52:33

right um i mean they're all over the

52:36

news and you we said to the top of the

52:38

show today that

52:39

the rates have gone up murders have gone

52:43

up during this crisis this covid 19

52:44

crisis and so

52:46

we all kind of know the bad stories and

52:48

so i don't want to i don't want to

52:49

belabor that but i do want to know if

52:50

you guys want to share

52:52

anything that especially if it's in this

52:54

crisis but it could be

52:55

from a different natural disaster uh

52:58

where you have a client story you might

52:59

want to share that the

53:00

outcome is it up good and and because of

53:03

the help of a legal attorney or a pro

53:04

bono attorney you were able to either

53:06

get them out of an abusive situation or

53:08

potentially save someone's life

53:10

open up to both you i guess i

53:14

i have had the privilege of doing this

53:16

work for for a long time pablo i'm right

53:18

behind you i think uh 20 years at trla

53:21

this

53:21

april so i've had the

53:24

not only the ability to to do the work

53:27

but

53:27

see my clients that i served in the past

53:31

like come full circle right i've been

53:34

long enough to not only see

53:35

the times where things didn't work but

53:37

then where the work that we did

53:39

created something amazing i've had a

53:41

couple of clients who have started like

53:43

their own organization service

53:45

organizations to help

53:47

others you know start a charity event to

53:49

make sure that

53:50

children who are in the shelter are

53:52

getting toys for christmas

53:54

and this again is somebody that you know

53:56

when we started working with them

53:58

needed all the help and now not only are

54:00

they

54:02

moving forward and changing their own

54:04

lives but changing the lives of others

54:06

because

54:07

we gave them that ability to to free

54:09

themselves of

54:10

a very abusive situation and and and

54:13

they did all the work we

54:14

just had the benefit of being a tool for

54:18

that change so

54:19

i am grateful for the work because i all

54:22

the bad things that have an also to take

54:24

all the good things and it gives me hope

54:26

for

54:26

for you know what we're doing and for

54:29

all the clients that i will see and yet

54:31

to see

54:34

along those lines i had a client

54:37

call me um earlier this year

54:41

one of them by one of my earlier cases

54:43

that i took on and i represented her

54:45

in a in a protective order case and then

54:49

helped her get divorced and also

54:52

because of all of the issues with the

54:55

court hearings in the custody case there

54:57

was also

54:57

another matter she was dealing with with

54:59

one of her children's school

55:02

and i represented her in that case in jp

55:05

court as well

55:06

and so i got to know the family very

55:09

very well

55:10

over the years um in representing her

55:12

and she had called me back

55:15

out of the blue earlier this year and

55:18

one of her daughters was going to go to

55:20

law school and she was calling me

55:22

just very very excited um you know that

55:26

her daughter wanted to go to law school

55:27

and she just wanted to call me and let

55:29

me know because you know this

55:31

had became possible because she was able

55:33

to leave the abusive relationship and

55:35

the children were doing well and thriving

55:37

and it was just such an incredible story

55:39

right and sometimes you know when we're

55:41

in it

55:41

doing these cases day in and day out you

55:43

know it is

55:45

you know it can it it's challenging work

55:48

right

55:48

but to know what a difference is making

55:51

in people's lives right

55:53

um and how incredible it can see because

55:56

i mean

55:56

i'm sure maricarmen will agree with me

55:58

but you've seen you see

56:00

over the course of the case right how a

56:03

client is just transformed as you walk

56:05

them through that process right

56:07

especially if you're

56:08

you're assisting a client getting a

56:09

protective order you know at the

56:11

beginning

56:12

you know the fear and the emotions right

56:14

it's just it's a lot

56:16

and then as they go through the process

56:17

and to see after the divorce

56:19

right um and after they get orders in

56:21

place for the children right

56:23

there you know to see and you know

56:25

especially if

56:26

they're doing counseling and all these

56:27

other services right

56:29

the change that happens right you see

56:31

them become more independent and opening

56:33

up

56:34

and and it's just it's incredible it's

56:36

very

56:37

it's very amazing how you know by

56:40

providing you know trauma informed

56:42

services right we can really help

56:44

empower clients and

56:45

and where they can go after that it's

56:47

it's it's such a blessing to get to do

56:50

this work

56:51

one of the benefits of being father time

56:52

here i can have many examples i can give

56:54

you only have three minutes left but i

56:55

can tell you some more about that but

56:57

i think i also want to talk to our

56:58

audience that if you're part of the

56:59

community that's suffering into a

57:00

disaster and you're taking on cases

57:02

you are part of the recovery i mean it

57:04

helps you i think personally and then it

57:06

helps the client

57:07

to be to come out of that you know

57:08

otherwise you see the community doing

57:10

something and involved and you're

57:11

wondering what can i do for my community

57:12

this is a perfect thing to do and then

57:15

when you realize a personal aspect as

57:17

the ladies have mentioned here

57:18

how your client will flourish you know

57:20

male female you know domestic partner or

57:22

whatever when they come out of this

57:24

it's a whole different person and i've

57:25

had i've never had a great story i've

57:27

got about law school but

57:28

i've had clients who actually become

57:30

board members for our organization

57:31

and are doing and thriving quite well

57:33

i've had the one that really struck me

57:35

once when i went over i think to buy

57:36

something somewhere before this covid

57:38

madness

57:39

and the cashier behind you know the

57:41

counter there she was young maybe in

57:43

you know 20 or so and she you know she's

57:46

looking at me and charging and stuff and

57:47

i feel like she wanted to ask me a

57:49

question

57:49

and i'm always kind of careful like you

57:50

know if i can ask a legal question

57:52

because they know who i am

57:53

and i go you know and she's like you're

57:54

working legal aid yeah i do

57:56

and my mom is so-and-so and i'm like oh

57:58

that was like years ago she was i was

58:00

the daughter that was there going with

58:01

you for that custody battle

58:02

you know i'm in college now and i wanted

58:03

to thank you for all that you've done so

58:05

far

58:05

and it just blew me away and i'm like

58:07

yeah i would have never known otherwise

58:08

you know she was but she was like really

58:10

ecstatic and happy

58:11

and she wanted to let me know how much

58:12

that happens and so you'll never hear

58:14

you know from all clients but it happens

58:16

and it multiplies many ways over because

58:18

you stop the cycle there

58:19

so that's a great benefit you get you

58:21

help in the recovery and you stop a

58:22

cycle in somebody's life so

58:24

that should provide some kind of benefit

58:26

for you

58:28

we've got a minute and a half in case

58:30

you don't want any uh get more tissues

58:32

and start

58:32

wiping off you know away your tears here

58:34

on these stories that i'm saying but

58:36

i don't know how you want to wrap it up

58:38

but that's just a great point um

58:40

sometimes it is a cycle sometimes you're

58:42

breaking generations

58:44

Of domestic violence and i'm sorry i'm

58:47

about to

58:48

cry because of the kids that's i want to

58:51

help

58:51

uh the survivor but i also know how hard

58:54

it is on the

58:55

kids and what a disadvantage that

58:58

traumatic household can have on

59:00

their education prospects their job

59:02

prospects

59:04

sorry no no they can take a toll on you

59:06

i think every legal aid

59:07

attorney knows that that i think the

59:09

point at the point you stop caring and

59:12

don't cry

59:12

is when you probably don't want to do

59:14

this anymore because it'd be becoming a

59:15

little callous so

59:17

um passionate about it it's good

59:21

uh so we got to finish on a 

59:22

up beat note here okay now listen uh

59:25

thank you all this has actually been one

59:26

of the interactive uh

59:28

uh like quick podcasts we've done so

59:30

amber maricarmen apart from your

59:32

knowledge and what you provided i think

59:33

stuart and belinda here

59:34

have also just kind of made this program

59:36

just flow quite well

59:38

i think we might have some future ones

59:40

related to this issue you know more

59:41

specific issues as volunteers tell us

59:43

tell us but thank you not only for the

59:45

time but i think for the resources

59:46

uh belinda uh stuart anything you want

59:49

to add before we turn over to the ladies

59:50

and you know

59:51

in the podcast no i'm good i just want

59:53

to again thank both of you for joining

59:55

us this is a really fun one

59:56

uh a hard hard really tough subject but

59:59

really important

60:00

and we couldn't have ended better with

60:02

the with the uplifting story so again

60:04

thank you for joining

60:06

and i just wanted to add the resources

60:08

mentioned

60:10

uh in the podcast can be found on the

60:12

websites

60:13

the ladies mentioned and also at the

60:15

texas disaster legal help website

60:18

on the pro bono portal we do have a

60:21

knowledge resource library that has

60:22

templates information uh anything you

60:26

could possibly need as far as

60:27

information

60:28

wise and if you do sign up there's also

60:31

mentorship

60:31

live chat to answer questions if you are

60:35

interested in volunteering please check

60:36

out our site

60:37

thank you amber maricarmen anything you

60:40

want to

60:41

say here at the end well i just want to

60:44

thank

60:45

all three of you for you know inviting

60:48

us and making

60:49

this an issue that is uh important we

60:52

we can't do it alone and we certainly

60:55

would love to see the pro bono community

60:58

you know

60:58

come on board we will do and help and

61:02

assist and provide all the support

61:03

that's needed

61:04

uh because the work is challenging but

61:07

as you can

61:08

hear i mean from our experiences is that

61:11

sometimes it's much more rewarding than

61:14

than the challenge that we have

61:16

so uh thank you for for the opportunity

61:18

and for

61:19

um highlighting this important need of

61:21

our community

61:23

thank you thank you so much for having

61:25

us yes and i just want a second maricarmen

61:27

 right

61:28

these cases are so important right and

61:31

especially with the pandemic right we've

61:33

seen the increase

61:34

in applications and need for this type

61:36

of work so we really want to encourage

61:39

um pro bono volunteers to help out

61:42

however they can right there's

61:44

there's a case for for whatever your

61:46

time commitments are we have

61:48

we have a case available for you so

61:50

please don't be afraid

61:52

um because there are lots of resources

61:54

and we're out we're here to help

61:56

there you go there you go auditioning

61:57

for my job again but i'll leave it alone

61:59

here at this point but

62:00

honestly thank you both of you so much

62:02

i'm gonna stop the recording at this

62:03

point and

62:04

thank you for your time