Some of our volunteer attorneys have not worked with legal aid clients before. It may be their first time to use an interpreter or work with disabled clients. Since our project is aimed at disaster survivors, our clients are often dealing with homelessness, and intense financial stress. This podcast will go into how to get the information you need to represent your client while accommodating their needs.
Guest Speakers: Jessica Robinson from Legal Aid of NorthWest Texas and Meghan Smolensky from Lone Star Legal Aid
Visit our website at https://texasdisasterlegalhelp.org/
Music Credit:Track: Travel With Us — Vendredi [Audio Library Release]Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: https://youtu.be/o-rpKzt4KSY Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/travel-us
Some of our volunteer attorneys have not worked with legal aid clients before. It may be their first time to use an interpreter or work with disabled clients. Since our project is aimed at disaster survivors, our clients are often dealing with homelessness, and intense financial stress. This podcast will go into how to get the information you need to represent your client while accommodating their needs.
Guest Speakers: Jessica Robinson from Legal Aid of NorthWest Texas and Meghan Smolensky from Lone Star Legal Aid
Visit our website at https://texasdisasterlegalhelp.org/
Music Credit:Track: Travel With Us — Vendredi [Audio Library Release]Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: https://youtu.be/o-rpKzt4KSY Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/travel-us
Representing Legal Aid Clients
Guest Speakers Jessica Robinson and Meghan Smolensky
Recorded February 2021
00:22
first of all myself Pablo Almaguer
00:25
I work with texas rio grande
00:27
I’ve got my co-host here Stuart Campbell
00:28
legally to northwest texas and Belinda
00:30
Martinez
00:31
from lone star legal aid uh let me go
00:33
ahead and tell you real quick what this
00:34
project is all about and we can go right
00:36
into the topic and Belinda will
00:37
introduce our speakers
00:39
who are we are a coordinator project
00:41
between legal aid of northwest texas
00:44
a lone star legal aid in texas rio
00:45
grande legal aid aimed at improving
00:47
access to justice
00:48
to those affected by disasters our
00:50
project allows both disaster survivors
00:52
and pro bono attorneys to access
00:53
critical resources in one place
00:55
while at the same time making it easier
00:57
to connect disaster survivors
00:59
needing help legal help with volunteer
01:01
attorneys willing to provide it in this
01:03
way the project team hopes to increase
01:05
the number of disaster survivor clients
01:06
who receive high quality legal
01:08
assistance
01:09
as they continue to navigate the
01:10
recovery process after a disaster
01:13
and provide the support and mentorship
01:14
pro bono attorneys need to achieve
01:16
success that's my little introduction
01:19
here let me go ahead and
01:20
pass this on over to belinda
01:24
thank you Pablo
today's topic
01:44
is representing legal aid clients um
01:48
this is actually a very important topic
01:51
in legal aid communities
01:52
the majority of our volunteer attorneys
01:54
haven't worked with legal aid clients
01:55
before
01:56
it may be the first time a volunteer has
01:59
had to use an interpreter or worked with
02:00
disabled clients
02:02
most importantly our project is aimed at
02:05
helping disaster survivors
02:07
our clients are often dealing with
02:08
homeless excuse me
02:10
homelessness and intense financial
02:13
stressors
02:14
um their legal issues sometimes aren't
02:16
the most pressing concern
02:18
at that moment so we'll go into how to
02:20
get the information you need without
02:21
re-traumatizing the client or
02:23
causing them to shut down our guest
02:26
today
02:27
our is Jessica Robinson
02:30
from legal aid of northwest texas
02:34
she has a bachelor's degree in computer
02:36
information systems with
02:38
a minor in marketing from Louisiana tech
02:39
university
02:41
she went to texas southern university
02:43
Thurgood marshall school of law
02:45
here in Houston when she first got out
02:47
of law school she
02:48
practiced criminal defense for various
02:50
public defenders and indigent defense
02:51
offices in Georgia
02:53
when she got back to texas she started
02:55
out with fort worth office of legal aid
02:57
of northwest texas as a staff attorney
02:59
in the family division
03:00
where she provided legal assistance to
03:02
domestic violence survivors
03:04
uh soon she was promoted to a
03:06
supervising attorney position
03:08
with the Lassa unit which we've
03:09
mentioned before on the show which is
03:11
the legal
03:12
aid for survivors of sexual assault um
03:14
and she provided legal assistance to
03:16
survivors of sexual assault in areas of
03:18
family law immigration
03:20
and other civil matters
03:23
she put down some interesting facts
03:25
about her, she is licensed in three
03:26
states
03:27
Georgia Texas Louisiana so hats off to
03:29
you I don't think I could ever
03:31
take another bar and like me
03:35
she is a dog lover she has rescue shih
03:37
tzu
03:38
caesar and hershey who like mine run the
03:40
entire household
03:42
so we love our divas
03:45
our other speaker is Meghan Smolensky
03:48
uh she is from lone star legal aid she's
03:50
an equal work
03:51
equal justice works fellow in the
03:53
disaster relief program
03:55
here in Houston and she like me helped
03:58
victims of natural disasters through
04:00
assistance with
04:01
multitude of legal matters as we know
04:03
disaster law is kind of
04:06
a grab bag of everything hence the
04:09
wide variety of topics these podcasts
04:11
covered
04:13
she also holds a bachelor's from
04:14
Louisiana state university
04:16
go tigers and she graduated from
04:19
my alma mater as well south texas
04:21
college of law
04:22
thank you for joining us ladies thank
04:25
you
04:26
thank you for having us okay uh
04:30
generally when we start getting topics
04:31
we go
04:32
very broad just to kind of get the
04:34
discussion going
04:35
um so just off the top
04:39
what are kind of the basic issues that
04:43
come up
04:43
when what would you want to teach a
04:45
volunteer attorney coming in probably
04:47
from
04:48
private practice or maybe a
04:49
transactional law practice
04:54
I think one of the most important things
04:57
starting out to know is that
04:59
we have all been in the same position
05:02
um and so this may be something that uh
05:05
you're not used to doing in the
05:07
beginning or you're not used to having
05:09
a conversation with applicants and
05:11
clients about the types of issues that
05:13
they have
05:14
but we have all been there um don't be
05:17
afraid to
05:18
ask questions don't be afraid to get the
05:21
help
05:22
that you need reach out to us uh reach
05:24
out to
05:25
other attorneys we are always open to
05:27
answering any questions for anyone who
05:29
is able to
05:30
help with our cases on a pro bono or low
05:32
bono basis
05:34
yeah I agree with Jessica I think lone star
05:38
are especially legal aids it's a very uh
05:41
interactive community we all rely on one
05:43
another
05:44
and so for these pro bono attorneys
05:46
don't hesitate to rely on us as well
05:48
you know we learn as we go especially
05:51
with issues that are constantly
05:53
revolving and
05:54
we have no problem whatsoever helping
05:56
someone who just has a few questions
05:58
and are there in order to further their
06:00
clients needs
06:03
and that's when the good thing about
06:04
this disaster legal help
06:06
project as Pablo mentioned earlier one of
06:09
the goals was having a one-stop shop for
06:11
volunteer lawyers who wanted to assist
06:13
disaster survivors
06:14
in getting mentorship CLEs knowledge
06:17
resources
06:18
form templates anything you need at live
06:20
chat if you had a question you asked so
06:24
yes very important and yes we do support
06:26
our attorneys who volunteered for us
06:31
I know one of the major things I know
06:34
when I was first coming into the legal
06:36
aid
06:37
profession crash course in working with
06:40
an interpreter what are some best
06:41
practices if you've never had to work
06:43
with an interpreter with a client before
06:47
um so we like to
06:51
request um interpreters who know a
06:54
little bit more
06:55
legal terms uh you can do that when
06:58
you call into a language line or some
07:00
kind of interpreter try to seek someone
07:02
who specializes in
07:04
legal jargon because we find it it's
07:07
really difficult when you're speaking
07:10
with an interpreter
07:11
who isn't really familiar with certain
07:13
terms like I had an entire conversation
07:16
with an interpreter and she kept saying
07:19
morgue
07:20
like in the morgue but it really was
07:22
talking about a mortgage certificate
07:24
and to go an entire conversation and
07:27
have that one
07:28
term misinterpreted it was kind of
07:31
difficult once you got to the end and
07:32
we're like wait that's not exactly what
07:34
we were meant to be talking about so um
07:37
I think it's just kind of
07:39
rely on who you're using but in order to
07:42
rely on that you need to
07:44
make sure that they know kind of what
07:45
they're talking about
07:47
I’m kind of curious about that story you
07:49
can't just like drop that
07:50
and not explain more about what that
07:52
what actually happened
07:54
I mean obviously two totally different
07:56
things we're talking about a mortgage
07:57
certificate and a
07:59
morgue and so like right what was your
08:01
what was your applicant or client
08:03
like trying to do what was their goal
08:04
and I guess it wasn't
08:06
probably didn't have to deal with dead
08:07
bodies hopefully no
08:09
well it kind of did because what
08:11
happened was is we were trying to get
08:13
um the uh husband had recently passed
08:17
away so we were trying to get a loan
08:19
modification
08:20
and something was being like obviously
08:25
lost an interpretation between going to
08:27
the morgue getting a certificate and the
08:29
mortgage certificate and I was like
08:32
what I had to be like okay
08:35
translator just in English what are
08:37
we talking about right now so
08:41
that's the little story yeah it's got to
08:43
be confusing I mean
08:44
I’m sure Jessica has all of us could
08:46
probably have the same similar stories
08:50
I think too one thing that's important
08:52
is to make sure you
08:54
clarify what type of interpreter your
08:56
client needs
08:58
um I have had a similar
09:01
situation where I had a french
09:05
interpreter for a client who spoke
09:08
creole
09:08
and so you would think those languages
09:11
are very
09:12
similar but my client was able to understand
09:16
what it is that the french interpreter
09:17
was saying
09:18
so you have to be very specific about
09:20
the type of interpreter that your
09:22
client needs and then just understand
09:25
the fact that
09:26
if you're doing an intake or if you are
09:28
prepping for a hearing it's probably
09:29
going to take twice as
09:31
long and we have to be okay with
09:33
that
09:34
because we need to be able to clarify
09:36
that the right words are being used
09:38
that our clients and our applicants
09:40
understand the process
09:41
and feel like they are part of the
09:43
process um because all that is
09:45
is important with just getting them
09:48
comfortable everybody no matter what
09:50
language they speak comes into court
09:52
nervous um and preparing for court makes
09:55
them nervous
09:55
it tightens you you know your adrenaline
09:58
your and so your brain
09:59
is kind of moving on all synapses
10:02
um so in order to make people more
10:05
comfortable we have to make sure
10:07
that we are speaking directly to them um
10:09
although the interpreter is
10:11
present I try to make sure I’m not
10:13
having a
10:14
conversation in English or a side
10:17
conversation that my client can't
10:19
understand just because I want them to
10:21
be part of the process
10:22
I want them to be part of the
10:23
conversation I want them to feel
10:25
comfortable with what's going on
10:26
and with talking to me
10:38
also i just like wanted to let our
10:41
audience or volunteers know
10:42
uh we do have a language line I think
10:45
most of the agencies use it
10:46
so we do provide interpreters you're not
10:49
we're not going to leave you scrambling
10:50
for finding your own um another issue i
10:54
know I found especially with Spanish
10:56
speakers
10:57
sometimes they'll overestimate
11:00
the amount of English they understand
11:01
especially if they've been here for a
11:03
while
11:04
also sometimes there's the concern that
11:06
if they say they need a Spanish
11:07
interpreter, they're used to having to
11:09
wait
11:10
a little longer for services for that so
11:12
they'll kind of sometimes
11:13
say yes I understand English and
11:15
sometimes they do conversation every day
11:17
direct
11:18
interactions yes for legal terms and
11:21
some of the complex issues we have
11:23
sometimes no so make sure
11:27
your client is getting the information
11:29
in a way they are comfortable with
11:31
that would be my little two cents on
11:33
that
11:36
um I know one of the other issues that
11:38
kind of comes up we do
11:40
service a lot of the disabled community
11:44
what are some of the top issues that
11:47
volunteers would need to know about
11:49
servicing that community as far as
11:51
conflicts issues problems
11:58
I think that the way you and we all
12:01
address
12:02
a client's uh disability is important
12:06
um and that we are uh sensitive to
12:10
what their disability is but also um
12:13
offer help and understand if
12:15
it if they don't want it um
12:18
I think too also to just be careful with
12:21
the words that you use to refer to
12:24
a person with a disable with a
12:26
disability as opposed to calling them
12:27
maybe like a
12:29
A disabled person or speaking about
12:31
someone who does not have a disability
12:33
and calling them normal
12:34
you have to be very careful with your
12:36
words when you're dealing with someone
12:37
with a disability
12:38
and understand that you are not working
12:41
specifically with a disability, you are
12:43
working with a person
12:44
um who just so happens to have this
12:47
particular disability it may be
12:49
something that they want to address and
12:50
it may not be
12:52
and we have to be understanding and
12:55
respectful of their
12:56
decision and how they want to handle
12:58
their case moving forward and whether or
12:59
not that
13:00
that disability plays into our case yeah
13:06
I think that's a great point and I also
13:08
find it so interesting that
13:10
a lot of my clients who are faced with
13:12
some kind of mental illness
13:14
will be upfront with the fact that
13:16
saying I have
13:17
this mental illness um so if my emotions
13:21
are like this then this might be why
13:24
and I think that's wonderful and then
13:26
you can kind of
13:27
you know operate on a different level
13:29
based on what they need from you
13:32
and then especially if it's a physical
13:34
disability
13:35
exactly like Jessica said they might
13:38
want help they might not want help but
13:39
being able to provide them with
13:41
resources for
13:43
um just different opportunities or maybe
13:46
different
13:48
resources they might need down the line
13:50
I know I refer a ton of people to
13:52
disability rights texas
13:54
where I might not have that specialized
13:57
knowledge for whatever problem they
13:58
might have but
13:59
they definitely will so providing them
14:01
with resources
14:03
um if down the line they do need further
14:05
assistance
14:09
I’m sorry Stuart sorry I should have
14:10
raised my hand go-ahead
14:12
I have had a uh a client in the past
14:16
who had a speech impediment um and
14:19
she we prepared for that um in the event
14:22
that we
14:23
needed to have a hearing she wanted to
14:25
make sure that we took breaks
14:27
she wanted to make sure that I spoke
14:30
more
14:30
you know slowly in court um and then
14:33
gave her more time to answer the
14:34
questions as well
14:36
and so we just prepare for that and i
14:38
you know
14:39
let her know that the court is fine with
14:41
us taking breaks as long as we ask
14:43
um they won't have a problem with it um
14:45
just you know to make sure that she knew
14:47
that the courts and the judges are
14:49
understanding
14:50
uh if you ask I’ve never been in a
14:53
position or seen a judge
14:55
you know deny a request like that as
14:57
long as
14:58
they're aware of what the
15:00
situation is so
15:01
I think it just takes some planning to
15:05
make sure you know that everyone's
15:06
comfortable and make sure that
15:08
any accommodations that are necessary
15:09
are actually you know available
15:16
so I was going to share my a few
15:19
experiences at
15:22
helping folks with disabilities there's
15:26
a lot of individuals who
15:29
um are uh I’m not sure what the
15:32
terminology is here but
15:33
uh they can't hear right they've lost
15:35
their ability to hear so they use sign
15:36
language
15:37
completely and we have this great
15:40
access to this great resource where they
15:43
do a video call
15:44
and we'd go through an interpreter those
15:46
individuals
15:47
are the ones that are the ones that need
15:50
the most help
15:51
in these administrative hearings so
15:52
normally they're the ones because of the
15:54
communications issues
15:56
uh have the hardest time communicating
16:00
to the social
16:00
community social security administration
16:02
or to the texas workforce commission
16:04
about their benefits or to
16:06
snap or tanf about their benefits and
16:09
uh
16:10
it's usually not even a legal issue an
16:12
attorney like myself or one of one of
16:14
the other ones on the public benefits
16:15
team can just call up and say hey here's
16:17
what's going on
16:18
there's a communication issue and boom i
16:21
mean you've just helped someone get
16:22
their
16:23
their benefits uh back up from what it
16:25
was reduced or get their back pay
16:27
um an attorney in these shoes
16:30
um helping uh individuals in those
16:32
circumstances can really just
16:33
make a few phone calls or send a few
16:35
letters and like really change someone's
16:36
life
16:37
um and so I think that's really
16:39
important but it does take some patience
16:41
you're gonna have to um understand how
16:44
to communicate
16:45
with with folks with those types of
16:47
disabilities and those language lines
16:49
are
16:49
crucial you know and there's also
16:53
interesting um
16:54
when we do go back to court you know we
16:56
have you know
16:57
live hearings again and we I mean I’ve
17:00
had a few of them with clients you know
17:02
who need uh
17:04
sign language you know interpretation
17:06
for them one thing that I didn't think
17:07
about and realized that
17:08
from my first case or during my first
17:10
case we're in the hallway talking about
17:12
you know to the client trying to talk
17:14
about the matter and somebody's signing
17:15
for them right
17:16
the opponent can be in the other way
17:18
down the hallway and completely
17:20
understanding the sign language you know
17:21
what's going on
17:22
you've actually validated
17:23
confidentiality there so my
17:25
I realized that you know I can take my
17:27
client and everybody over to another
17:28
spot or completely you know so we can
17:30
communicate about that
17:31
small things like that I think sometimes
17:32
matter when you learn a bit more about
17:34
what your clients having to deal with
17:36
and how to represent them better
17:40
and one of the issues I wanted to kind
17:41
of circle back and talk touch based on
17:44
is uh you mentioned sometimes
17:47
they don't necessarily want the
17:49
resources you're offering them
17:51
um I had a case uh due to the client's
17:55
mental issues it made her hard for her to
17:57
work she had a hard time leaving the
17:58
house
18:00
unfortunately, she was behind on property
18:02
taxes and facing a foreclosure suit
18:05
and um those uh that listened to the
18:08
Title clearing
18:09
podcast and foreclosure and tax podcast
18:12
know
18:12
that you can qualify for a disability
18:15
deferral which kind of just makes all
18:16
those taxes go away
18:19
and I think she would have qualified for
18:21
SSDI
18:22
but she didn't want it to her she was
18:25
not disabled she was fine
18:26
that's not something she wanted even
18:28
though that probably could have saved
18:30
her house
18:31
that was the client's decision and I had
18:33
to respect that so we just had to
18:35
find a new way to keep her in her
18:38
home
18:38
and sometimes you just have to respect
18:41
that decision
18:42
even though it's hard because you know
18:44
how much it could help them
18:45
but yeah at the end of the day it is
18:48
their choice
18:48
not yours
18:53
and um I think at the top of the episode
18:56
I did mention
18:57
we are a disaster project we do work
19:00
with disaster
19:01
survivors what are some
19:04
things that you have learned in your own
19:05
practices that could help volunteer
19:07
attorneys with working with trauma
19:08
survivors
19:15
I think probably the biggest thing that
19:18
I’ve learned
19:19
from being in the disaster relief unit
19:22
is
19:23
realizing the trauma that people
19:25
experience right after the disaster
19:27
and the fact that it just doesn't
19:31
end after that disaster once the next
19:34
disaster occurs
19:35
these people have a lot of kinds of PTSD
19:38
that you have to
19:39
work with and just being so empathetic
19:43
to the facts that these situations don't
19:47
just end
19:48
Two, three, four weeks after these
19:51
disasters happen
19:52
it's months and months for people to
19:54
repair their homes and their lives
19:57
and unfortunately we in
20:00
at lone star legal aid like to say that
20:05
we can't make people whole all the time
20:08
we can kind of get them what they
20:10
deserve but it doesn't mean that they're
20:12
going to be whole again and really
20:14
managing people's expectations
20:16
I think that's been really hard
20:18
especially with dealing with
20:20
disaster clients
20:27
I think a lot of the
20:31
trauma that I deal with on a daily basis
20:34
um
20:34
also involves some form of domestic
20:38
violence and
20:39
sexual assault in addition to the things
20:41
that people
20:42
are experiencing on top of that you know
20:44
so
20:45
maybe being um stuck in a home with
20:48
their
20:49
abuser due to covid or um
20:52
having to deal with uh our most
20:55
recent winter storm um in the home with
20:58
an abuser or without the resources
20:59
because
21:00
because of that situation and so I think
21:02
what I have learned
21:04
is not to uh push people
21:07
into facts and to push people into
21:10
things quickly
21:11
um I try to let them
21:15
tell the story to me and let it unfold
21:17
as opposed to
21:18
asking them you know or rushing them
21:20
or saying hey get straight to the point
21:22
you know a lot of times we want to know
21:24
what it is that you came in for
21:26
and how we can fix it and talk to you
21:28
about the process and get it done but
21:30
sometimes you do
21:31
have to ask the same questions you know
21:33
again in a different way to get the
21:35
the answer that you're looking for um
21:38
you have to kind of understand
21:40
what we call trauma brain and so their
21:43
memory is
21:44
going to function differently um
21:47
there'll be some things that people who
21:49
have been through trauma
21:51
will remember you know on a kind of a
21:53
sporadic basis or maybe they don't
21:55
remember
21:55
any details because their defense
21:57
mechanism has pushed those out
21:59
um and so you can't force it
22:02
um and sometimes those intakes and
22:05
those interviews and
22:06
and that kind of thing take a little
22:08
longer um I try not to re-traumatize
22:11
people so
22:12
um my big thing is a timeline I ask
22:16
my people to create a timeline with me
22:20
and then as things uh as their memory
22:22
you know things start to jog their
22:23
memory
22:24
then I add to that timeline as
22:26
opposed to going back
22:27
and saying well what happened you know a
22:30
year before and having them trying to
22:33
uh also deal with the stress of trying
22:36
to remember things that maybe they've
22:38
forgotten
22:39
and that helps them get through the hearing
22:41
but it also helps them kind of
22:43
as you know as the case unfolds and as
22:45
litigation goes on
22:47
helps them to remember things and it
22:48
just kind of kills the stress
22:51
um so I’ve noticed that that
22:55
doing that has helped me out a lot and
22:56
it also helps them out a lot because it
22:58
gives them
22:59
some homework um and it's not something
23:02
that has to be done
23:03
every day is something if you remember
23:06
it jot it down
23:07
we'll add it to our timeline letter
23:09
later you know if you remember it email
23:11
it to me
23:11
I’ll add it to your timeline we move on
23:13
from there so it's not something we have
23:15
to discuss
23:16
every day all day long but it is you
23:18
know putting kind of the story together
23:21
in a way that is easier for them to you
23:24
know
23:24
to handle especially when dealing with
23:27
trauma because just like Meghan said
23:30
nothing ever happened you know there's
23:31
never
23:32
one incident one thing um that's why
23:35
they say you know when it rains it pours
23:37
um everybody's dealing with you know
23:40
kind of the
23:41
effect of multiple things at once and so
23:44
try not to
23:45
overwhelm people um especially in our
23:48
cases where they're dealing with
23:49
multiple
23:49
organizations and so they're getting
23:52
help from different resources they're
23:53
talking to different attorneys about
23:55
different things they're talking to
23:56
you know people who are who are
23:58
providing them with services
24:00
maybe cps maybe you know all these
24:02
different organizations and entities and
24:04
that's stressful
24:05
sometimes you know people can't remember
24:07
who it is that they talk to last or
24:08
who's helping them with the particular
24:10
thing
24:10
so you have to be really patient um and
24:12
you have to understand that no one's
24:14
dealing with just one
24:15
issue at one time um you have to be you
24:18
know
24:18
I think we have to be able to see
24:22
that
24:22
and to work with it so
24:25
I got a question for both of you um
24:28
it's something that I struggle with I
24:30
don't do a lot of
24:32
DV intakes um or have a lot of DV
24:34
clients like you all do
24:36
um or uh people who've had trauma from
24:40
disaster stuff we don't have we don't
24:41
get as much disaster stuff in
24:43
fort worth as you all do in south texas
24:45
um
24:46
and so uh I want to hit on a topic
24:50
that Belinda brought up
24:51
and that's managing their expectations
24:55
but trying to do it in a way that
24:56
doesn't really re-tramatize them
24:58
or that doesn't offend their
25:00
sensibilities I would love to get
25:02
some and this is like me genuinely
25:03
asking advice now like what is
25:06
how do you walk that line
25:08
because
25:09
I consistently struggle with that
25:12
whenever I’m having to do uh intakes
25:14
with
25:15
um or retaining clients that are are
25:18
victims of DV
25:19
and it's a landlord-tenant issue
25:20
like like what I do and the abusers are
25:22
still in the house and I’m trying to
25:24
figure out
25:24
what the best options are but I also
25:26
want to try to manage their expectations
25:28
because as anyone
25:29
who knows landlord-tenant laws in this
25:31
state the laws are not going to be
25:32
friendly to the tenant
25:33
um and so uh can you kind of
25:36
opine on on on how to best walk the line
25:39
of of
25:41
managing their expectations but also
25:44
not re-traumatizing them and being
25:46
honest with them
25:49
um yeah so before
25:53
well in order to kind of not
25:56
re-traumatize them when I’m first
25:58
speaking with them I’m completely honest
26:01
on what the remedies can be you know
26:04
exactly what you said
26:05
texas is very landlord-friendly so
26:08
there's only so much I can do to change
26:10
what the legislator
26:12
legislature excuse me has already ruled
26:15
and so with that initial phone call as
26:17
I’m listening to their facts and what
26:19
legal remedies are available
26:21
that's all I can do is be very honest
26:23
with how what I can do to accomplish
26:25
their goals
26:26
but also when I have that first
26:30
conversation I always ask what are your
26:32
goals
26:33
what is it that you're wanting so that i
26:35
don't push anything further on you
26:38
of course, there's going to be things
26:39
that I hear that I’m like well that's a
26:41
legal issue that we could probably solve
26:42
as well
26:43
but I’m not going to push any more um
26:47
any more stress on them if they've come
26:49
for a legal issue I’m going to listen to
26:50
them
26:51
and then like I said I’m just going to
26:53
be completely honest with what I can do
26:55
and what help I can provide
26:56
because I I’m not going to sit there and
26:59
say I can solve all your problems and at
27:01
the end they're going to be rainbows and
27:03
cupcakes it's going to be all beautiful
27:05
it's just not reality and so
27:07
I wish I could say that to them but it's
27:10
just not
27:11
the truth of the matter always
27:16
so this makes me think about residency
27:19
restrictions
27:20
in my line because I do you know a lot
27:22
of family law
27:23
and so the first thing that comes to
27:25
mind is residency restrictions and I try
27:27
to
27:27
tell people um that I don't like them
27:31
either
27:31
let me just you know be honest with you
27:33
I don't like it either
27:35
um but the law in Texas is that if you
27:38
have a
27:38
child and the opposing party is here
27:40
they are allowed to foster a
27:42
relationship with that child
27:44
and so that means no you cannot move you
27:46
know halfway across the united states
27:49
or to another country, I don't like it
27:51
either and I try to make sure
27:53
that I let them know that but um I try
27:56
to be very
27:57
direct about um how those types of
28:01
things are implemented
28:02
and what the law is and then when
28:04
there's something that I know that i
28:06
can't do
28:07
for example I’m I am fairly certain i
28:09
know that I can't get the judge to lift
28:11
that restriction
28:12
and allow you to move California I’m
28:15
fairly
28:16
certain I can't but maybe I can put some
28:18
provisions
28:19
in place or some kind of safeguard so
28:22
that
28:23
when you are doing exchanges you're not
28:25
required to
28:26
have contact with this abuser or maybe I
28:29
can
28:30
you know put something in place that
28:31
makes you feel more comfortable with
28:33
being here
28:34
maybe I can get a broader residency
28:35
restriction so you guys don't have to be
28:37
so close together
28:39
um and you know maybe I can get some
28:42
some
28:43
uh travel provisions put into this order
28:45
that will allow you to move back and
28:46
forth like you need to
28:48
as long as you are you know as long as
28:50
you and the child reside here in texas
28:53
so I just try to be honest
28:57
about how I feel about I know what your
28:59
expectations are I need you to know what
29:01
the court
29:02
is able to do and what I’m able to ask
29:04
for and I mean to tell you the truth i
29:06
don't like it either
29:07
but it is what the law says and so maybe
29:10
we can put some things in place
29:12
to kind of help you feel more
29:13
comfortable with what the law is and
29:15
make it also work better in your favor
29:21
uh one thing I wanted to point out real
29:23
quick for those of us who don't do oh
29:25
those people who don't do family walks i=I
29:26
do it DV by the way is domestic
29:28
violence in case folks didn't know
29:29
what that term meant but that got me
29:31
thinking also you know when i
29:33
started doing these cases and had battered
29:35
spouse syndrome not to explain to
29:36
the court seemed like to explain why
29:38
it was hard to get testimony from the
29:40
victim at times
29:41
I actually just went ahead and went to
29:43
the DSM uh diagnostic into
29:45
a statistical model the uh the the
29:47
manual used you know for mental
29:49
disorders uh description
29:50
everybody can be diagnosed here on this
29:52
it's not like you have to have a mental
29:53
disorder like everybody can
29:55
hear a category for it for that and
29:58
what I did I took the um the trauma
30:01
issue the uh
30:02
somebody mentioned in here the PTSD
30:04
post-traumatic stress
30:06
is it for post tramatic stress syndrome or
30:08
something I think
30:09
and uh I explained it uh through that
30:13
way to the court and I find it unhelpful
30:14
to use that also for other cases and
30:16
other scenarios to explain when
30:17
somebody's been through a trauma
30:19
so I thought maybe it's a suggestion I’m
30:21
sure there might be even literature out
30:22
there you look for it
30:23
uh CLe articles about applying the DSM
30:26
model to the
30:27
explanation to your client condition
30:28
where they can remember certain things
30:30
or certain issues
30:31
uh it's the small thing that I think
30:32
helps because the DSM-4 DSM-5 now
30:35
is widely accepted in courts they hear
30:37
that in a code now it's scientific
30:38
it's a little different right it's not
30:40
just the opinion of the
30:41
litigator I wanted to just kind of
30:43
mention that little tool there as the
30:44
oldest person in this group here
30:46
so with the experience that I bring in
30:48
yeah absolutely and I’ve had to use it
30:50
to explain it's like my client may be
30:52
very
30:52
quiet her abuser's like literally five
30:55
feet away from her
30:56
she might not be the most talkative she
30:58
may hesitate to answer questions because
31:01
whoever it is is staring right out of
31:03
the entire hearing so
31:05
it's very stressful and obviously
31:07
they're scared of this person
31:09
so yeah it just it's not that they're
31:12
being
31:12
evasive or they're not really in danger
31:16
it's just
31:17
you have this stressor right in the room
31:19
with them
31:20
as far as maintaining ex uh expectations
31:24
not just family law that's pretty much
31:26
everything we do
31:27
um I think right now the most relevant
31:30
is the FEMA assistance people are
31:31
applying for
31:32
thanks to Uri people sometimes don't
31:36
quite understand what FEMA does for them
31:38
and what that doesn't do for them and a
31:39
lot of that frustration comes from
31:42
well I thought that you were there to
31:45
completely repair
31:46
my house and it's like no FEMA doesn't
31:49
make you
31:50
whole it just kind of makes it where you
31:52
can stay in the house again
31:56
a perfect example we have a three
31:58
bedroom home
31:59
it's just me and my husband um have a
32:01
stepson that comes back and forth
32:04
so FEMA decided we only needed one
32:07
bedroom repaired
32:09
we only used one bedroom to make our
32:10
home habitable we only need that one
32:12
bedroom the other two are
32:13
guest rooms or if
32:16
our neighbor his garage was flooded all
32:18
his tools were in there
32:20
he was a carpenter by trade well you're
32:21
retired you didn't actually need all
32:23
that
32:23
so no that doesn't get that doesn't get
32:26
repaired doesn't you're not going to get
32:27
any money for that
32:28
so a lot of time it's managing the
32:30
expectations of
32:32
what those resources will actually do
32:34
for them and what they actually can
32:35
provide and can't provide
32:37
so that was my two cents just because
32:39
I’m working on this for the last week
32:42
um
32:46
I know I think I heard someone say um
32:51
how to speak and how to phrase your
32:53
questions
32:55
to clients uh could you go in more
32:58
into that because I know I’ve had the
32:59
same issue where I’ve had to ask the
33:01
question a couple of different
33:02
ways to make sure they were
33:04
understanding the question
33:06
and I know sometimes I’ve had to go into
33:08
why
33:09
that question is so important so I kind
33:11
of get the answer I need so
33:12
could you go into more into that
33:20
well I um I think that
33:23
when when I am asking questions I try
33:25
not to
33:26
uh use any legalese or
33:29
um our big legal words um
33:32
if I do I have a kind of a breakdown or
33:36
a key
33:37
for what you know what this regular word
33:40
how it you know how it works with this
33:43
actual legal word so I try to
33:45
tell people and I try to make it
33:46
interesting so that they understand so
33:48
like in my family law world
33:49
I will say well we're asking for
33:52
conservatorship which is texas fancy
33:54
language for custody because everything
33:55
is always bigger in Texas and they
33:57
needed a long word
33:59
um and so so I try to say it that way
34:02
and then any kind of form questions that
34:05
are are
34:06
shorter and uh simpler to answer not
34:08
because I don't think that they'll
34:09
understand but just because they got to
34:11
put the thoughts together to remember
34:12
things
34:13
um and go back and talk about things
34:15
that may be traumatizing or
34:17
they may be repressed so I think it
34:21
helps
34:21
my notes one but it also helps my
34:25
client with uh with just getting through
34:29
the legal process
34:30
if I keep from using words that are
34:35
you know that that are legal words or
34:38
words that they may not understand or if
34:39
I
34:40
at least provide a kind of key or go by
34:43
us
34:43
what it is that I’m saying I do though
34:46
go back
34:46
and teach the buzzwords these are the
34:49
buzzwords that we need to use in court
34:51
so
34:51
remember you know these particular words
34:54
when we're talking about maybe best
34:55
interest or when we're talking about
34:56
conservatorship
34:57
we do need to use buzzwords but um we
35:00
need to talk in plain language
35:03
um I try to and so I try to make sure
35:06
that when I’m asking questions
35:08
that I’m asking them in plain language
35:10
that I’m asking short
35:11
questions as opposed to you know complex
35:13
long questions with multiple answers
35:15
um and if I need to circle back to
35:18
something I let them know that I’m
35:20
circling back
35:21
I’ll say okay I want to go back to you
35:23
know what you said about XYZ
35:25
so that I have a better understanding
35:28
and then that will usually get
35:30
to the place that I need to be with with
35:33
the client and that particular issue
35:34
that we're addressing
35:39
yeah and just bouncing off of Jessica
35:41
especially
35:42
when after disaster strikes and you're
35:45
trying to qualify people for let's say
35:47
FEMA
35:48
and one of the biggest hurdles is
35:50
ownership issues and so that kind of
35:51
leads to probate issues and
35:53
when you're trying to tell someone um
35:56
about a muniment of title
35:58
or something they're like what what what
36:00
is that word
36:01
and I’m like well let me tell you and so
36:04
I think though especially for probate
36:06
stuff if you kind of walk them
36:08
through did so and so die with a will
36:10
without a will
36:12
rather than say intestate you know
36:15
exactly what Jessica said if you kind of
36:17
explain these words to them it doesn't
36:19
mean that they can't understand it it's
36:20
just how long
36:21
in law school did it take us to
36:23
understand these terms
36:24
it's the same thing with teaching
36:26
someone something
36:28
very new that they've never had to work
36:31
with before
36:33
so it's walking someone through the
36:35
process what you need from them
36:37
like could you supply two witnesses
36:39
these are what qualify
36:41
as a witness so just walking people
36:44
very much through each step, I think is
36:46
so important when um
36:48
speaking with someone especially
36:52
when they need um some kind of legal
36:54
specific document
36:57
I think absolutely plain language is
36:59
very important but sometimes even when
37:01
using plain language
37:02
if a term has a specific legal meaning
37:05
you need to make sure that's coming
37:07
across I going back to the FEMA
37:09
example yes
37:10
most times if you ask a person do you
37:12
own your home they're going to say yes
37:14
I live there for 20 years of course I
37:15
own it but then when you do a title
37:17
search it's like no it's still titled and
37:19
grandma's name who passed 30 years ago
37:22
and no title transfer has ever happened
37:25
so you kind of have to be a little bit
37:28
more specific about
37:29
what ownership means in a legal term or
37:31
for FEMA’s
37:33
qualifications um the same thing in probate
37:36
I’ve had that issue too
37:38
Um, clients, unmarried brother passed
37:42
and I asked oh well is there any other
37:43
siblings that can inherit
37:46
inherit very common word most, people
37:48
understand what inherit means and she
37:49
was like oh no
37:51
further along down the conversation
37:53
she's like oh yeah I just wish my other
37:55
brother sisters were still alive to see
37:56
that I’m like wait whoa
37:58
wait what and for those of you who may
38:01
not do probate it's
38:04
even if those siblings are deceased they
38:05
may have had children
38:07
texas does per stirpes which means
38:09
those nieces and nephews are now
38:12
in line of secession so it's like
38:15
but she answered the question that i
38:16
asked in her mind
38:18
those siblings are passed they can't
38:19
inherit anything dead people can't
38:22
inherit anything so she
38:23
she technically answered the question
38:25
but I got the wrong answer because i
38:26
didn't explain what i
38:28
how the system worked so sometimes you
38:31
just got to be
38:32
very careful you are actually getting
38:34
the answer that you need because you can
38:36
make a huge mistake if you don't
38:39
um and just to add on what you're saying
38:41
Belinda
38:42
and this is kind of different but I had
38:45
a client who I’m doing a divorce for
38:47
and something so simple as um I need
38:51
your
38:51
name and respondent's name for the
38:53
the petition we get through the whole thing
38:55
and attorney ad litem has to be
38:58
put on the case and come out comes
39:01
um to be that the name it's not her full
39:03
name that she gave me
39:05
it's just the name that she's been going
39:06
for so even me asking what's your name
39:08
you have to be so specifically please
39:10
tell me your full name because I’m gonna
39:11
need these for the petitions
39:13
I just would have never thought of that
39:15
until now that I’ve come across that
39:17
kind of scenario
39:21
very true I’ve had that same problem
39:22
they go by a nickname or a middle name
39:25
and then I look at their driver's
39:26
license for something like wait you
39:28
told me your name was Michelle this says
39:32
Karen
39:35
well there's a reason they don't be
39:36
known as Karen they just know just
39:38
tell you right now
39:40
just kidding
39:44
um let's see I think another I know
39:46
issue that often comes up
39:48
is if you're in private practice or
39:52
a transactional attorney for a big firm
39:55
getting a hold of your client generally
39:56
isn't a problem they have email
39:59
they have facebook they have twitter
40:02
um good cell phone access good internet
40:05
access
40:06
um sometimes our clients
40:09
don't so that kind of comes to some
40:11
communication
40:12
issues how would you what are the major
40:15
communication issues how do you address
40:17
that and how do you work around those
40:18
issues
40:22
one major communication issue is
40:25
that with our client base they
40:28
maybe moving around from place to place
40:30
relatively quickly
40:32
um and so uh I think it's important to
40:35
get as many ways to communicate with
40:37
them
40:38
as possible if that's a phone number if
40:41
that's an
40:41
email address if that is a
40:44
caseworker um if it is you know your
40:48
best friend or your sister who
40:50
however, it is that I can relay a message
40:53
um
40:53
and you have to be willing to understand
40:57
it
40:57
like you can't just drop your client and
40:59
say we can't communicate because you
41:00
haven't heard from them in a week
41:02
if they're moving around um you gotta
41:04
understand that they're in survival mode
41:06
they're they are doing what they have to
41:08
do to you know to maintain their
41:10
livelihoods so
41:11
um leave a message when you're calling
41:15
um I try to if I’m calling my client or
41:18
my applicant directly put as much
41:20
information in the message as possible
41:22
so that when they call me back if it's
41:24
after hours
41:25
or if it's at a time that I’m not
41:27
available then they can
41:29
answer my question in the message
41:31
because they know why I called as
41:32
opposed to just saying
41:34
you know give me a call back um I
41:37
use email a lot um I have you know some
41:40
clients who are only available
41:42
after five o'clock um and if I need to
41:46
schedule appointments after hours and
41:48
I a lot for that time
41:49
because I know that they want to be able
41:52
to speak to someone in person and email
41:54
isn't always going to do it
41:55
or we need to be able to prepare for
41:57
things and we can't do that
41:58
you know via email so you know I a lot
42:01
for
42:02
the extra time if necessary and I tell
42:04
them you know don't feel bad
42:06
don't you know quit your job don't stop
42:08
doing what you're doing
42:09
I’ll find a way to make sure that we
42:11
have contact with each other
42:13
um but we'll have people sometimes that
42:15
are in
42:16
shelter for example and that will mean
42:19
that they have to
42:20
move around quite frequently but as long
42:23
as they have a way to get in touch with
42:25
you and provide any updates to telephone
42:27
numbers addresses
42:29
and always get an alternate email
42:30
address and an alternate
42:32
telephone number um and Ijust tell my
42:35
uh
42:35
clients I need to be able to find you um
42:38
whatever that means so
42:40
whatever information you want to give me
42:42
I need to be able to find you I’ll call
42:44
I’ll call whoever you need me to I’ll
42:45
send you know the email to
42:47
whoever you need me to just make sure
42:49
that I’ve got a way to get in touch with
42:50
you
42:55
yeah one of the biggest problems
42:59
that I’ve seen is just my clients they
43:01
run out of minutes on their cell phone
43:03
and then you just can't get a
43:06
hold of them anymore and
43:08
sometimes they'll remember your number
43:11
more likely than not
43:12
and it's just kind of you know I’m not
43:15
exactly what Jessica said we're not
43:16
going to close your case
43:17
um but there does come a point where you
43:20
know you haven't
43:21
heard or spoken to them for six months
43:23
but pre-covid I’d have no problem
43:26
just going down to their house knocking
43:27
on their door saying
43:29
hey haven't heard from you in a while or
43:31
sending them a letter
43:32
that really isn't realistic these days
43:35
which is so sad
43:36
but you know it's just trying to find
43:39
other means of communication
43:42
you know I will go online and try to
43:44
find their private Facebook account send
43:45
them a message
43:46
I’m not beneath it I’ll say hey i
43:48
haven't heard from you for a while
43:50
but yeah sometimes it's just so
43:52
difficult especially when you can't get
43:54
a hold of them and you have the deadline
43:56
approaching or something's happening so
43:58
it's just kind of pivoting to
44:01
find them that's one thing I always let
44:04
them know it's like I’ll Facebook chat
44:06
you I’ll dm you it's fine and I just
44:08
need to talk to you it doesn't have to
44:10
be a home or cell phone just
44:13
I just need to talk to you that's it um
44:16
I know one of the things I also have to
44:17
keep in the back of my mind
44:19
um well pre-covid at least was travel
44:22
restrictions
44:24
if they have a car gas money is
44:26
expensive if they don't have a car
44:27
they're relying on
44:28
the lovely Houston public transportation
44:31
system
44:33
we won't get on that topic
44:37
so when you make a hearing you have to
44:40
make sure they're ready to go
44:41
I mean if you're if you have a pretty 50
44:44
50 chance that it's probably going to be
44:45
reset
44:47
maybe you should call the clerk to talk
44:48
with the judge see if you can get a feel
44:50
of
44:51
if people have been served before you
44:52
drag them all the way down to the
44:53
courthouse
44:55
The same thing as Jessica was saying about
44:56
scheduling important
44:58
appointments our office is downtown
45:01
Houston sometimes
45:02
they're in webster and still in our
45:05
service area so that's a
45:06
long for those who are not familiar
45:08
that's over an hour drive
45:10
it's not convenient for them to always
45:11
to come to the office to sign
45:13
everything so if you do need in-person
45:16
signatures make sure you have all your
45:17
documents together in one go so they
45:19
don't have to keep making multiple trips
45:21
that's the one good thing silver lining
45:23
about the covid pandemic
45:25
it's forced the courts to go more online
45:27
like we have
45:28
digital notaries now courts are now very
45:31
open to DocuSign on documents
45:33
we're doing zoom hearings which is great
45:36
because
45:36
like I said getting down to the
45:38
courthouse paying for that parking
45:40
is a challenge and also they have to
45:42
take off work which means they're losing
45:44
usually a day's pay to sit and wait for
45:46
docket call
45:48
so I’m seeing I know when I still
45:50
practice and
45:52
from other attorneys that they're seeing
45:53
a lot fewer defaults because they can
45:55
take a 15-minute break
45:56
and do their little hearing and then go
45:59
back to work
46:00
so but when we go back to normal
46:03
just remember your clients may not be
46:05
able to just get to you
46:07
in office at a drop of a hat be
46:10
respectful of their time
46:11
and they should be respectful of yours
46:12
too
46:15
and just a piggyback off of what you
46:18
said Belinda you uh brought up
46:20
zoom and you know the fact that we're
46:21
doing more things online now we have
46:24
a lot of clients who don't have access
46:26
to the technology that they need for
46:27
hearings
46:28
um and so uh I think we just have to you
46:32
know understand that
46:33
we may have to pull some strings and
46:35
make some things happen
46:36
in order to make sure that they're able
46:38
to feel attend
46:40
hearings we have had people come to our
46:43
office and sit in separate rooms
46:45
because we had additional computers that
46:47
were there
46:49
we have Ubered people to our office in
46:52
order to be able to attend their
46:53
hearings on zoom
46:54
I’ve had one in my car on an iPad
46:58
uh with the person in the car with me so
47:01
you do
47:01
you do have to you know maneuver some
47:05
things
47:06
because although the technology for us
47:09
is great and allows us to do more
47:11
um it does put some of our clients in a
47:13
position where they don't have access to
47:15
that
47:15
and that of course makes them nervous
47:16
and makes them less comfortable with
47:18
with
47:19
the process
47:24
yeah absolutely um that's a good point
47:27
that digital
47:28
divide between people it is a problem
47:32
I just wanted to point out that you use
47:34
it for those rural attorneys that don't
47:35
live in the big cities you use a fancy
47:37
term public transportation
47:39
you don't even have that down here i
47:41
mean you've got a greyhound bus coming
47:42
up and down
47:43
one street you'll be lucky about that so
47:44
uber I didn't think about that actually
47:46
that's a very good idea
47:47
uh for our clients I also wanted to
47:49
mention something that I think we do in
47:51
our program and I think called the legal
47:52
aid programs that the pro bono attorneys
47:53
want to know
47:54
once we place a case with a client by
47:56
that point we've actually put the client
47:58
in contact with several different
47:59
agencies to assist them and not just a
48:01
legal problem but other matters maybe
48:02
even a social worker as
48:04
a case in trla and y'all can correct me
48:06
Meghan or Jessica if I’m wrong
48:07
but I think it's important for the pro
48:09
bono attorney to know that there's a
48:10
support system we've
48:11
given to our client before they go to
48:13
them they're not alone and if
48:14
not reach back to us you know we ever
48:16
refer the case to you so we can maybe
48:18
get them in contact with a few of those
48:19
agencies
48:20
that we would know about absolutely like
48:23
I think it was Jessica who said they're
48:25
never really dealing with one issue
48:27
even one legal issue so if you're like
48:30
yes I need to get their FEMA assistance
48:32
but they just told me they have no
48:34
food and their kids are hungry reach out
48:35
to us we could probably find
48:38
vouchers replacement staff charities
48:41
we can help them with that problem so
48:43
you can move forward on the case
48:49
wow time really flew I think we're in
48:52
our last
48:54
10 minutes it always seems to go by so
48:56
fast ourselves
48:58
it seems enough started interrupting but
49:00
then I should have raised my hand there
49:01
but I haven't heard a story
49:02
from Jessica yet I want to hear one of
49:03
those more interesting stories that
49:05
she's had because Meghan shared the
49:06
morgue
49:07
and mortgage with us which I’m still
49:08
can't I’m gonna forget that
49:14
I think one um so
49:17
I have uh been with legal aid now for
49:21
five years and so I think that my
49:24
stories feel like normal everyday life
49:26
to me now
49:27
mm-hmm um they’ve all got
49:30
their own uh I mean I feel like we could
49:33
write a book
49:34
um I think one of my
49:38
best kind of stories
49:41
is I have a client maybe about
49:45
now two years ago when I was in fort
49:48
worth
49:48
and we initially um
49:52
had not accepted the case because
49:56
she did not provide very much
49:58
information
49:59
um and so there wasn't a whole lot to go
50:03
off of
50:03
in her initial intake but we went back
50:06
and did it again and talked to her again
50:09
and it's just her story was
50:12
something you would see on the news um
50:15
she had so
50:18
her husband had absconded with the
50:21
children
50:22
left the country came to the united
50:24
states under the gods that she was dead
50:27
um and so it just and then she ended up
50:30
having to
50:31
find out you know figure out where her
50:33
children were figure out how to get into
50:35
the united states to get her children
50:37
he found out that he was here chased her
50:39
around with a gun
50:41
um and so I ended up filing
50:45
a protective order in a divorce for her
50:48
and
50:48
chronically pretty much doing whatever
50:51
in my power I could do to get him
50:52
arrested
50:53
um because he had warrants for the
50:56
things that he had done
50:57
he had you know lied about you know um
51:00
the reason why he was here
51:01
he had done some pretty
51:04
crazy and bad things to the children but
51:07
by the time our case was over and it may
51:09
have took about
51:10
a year but by the time our case was over
51:13
she had a protective order she had
51:14
learned how to drive
51:16
she had found and gotten a driver's
51:18
license she was getting help with
51:19
immigration she had found an apartment
51:22
she was working
51:23
um and it was a complete
51:27
like her entire just
51:30
experience was a complete 180. I saw
51:33
pictures
51:34
of the things that he had done to her
51:38
and then that kind of made me understand
51:41
why she was so timid about talking about
51:43
things but she had gotten so many good
51:46
resources
51:47
from legal aid because we not only had
51:50
uh helped her with the divorce and the
51:51
protective order
51:52
but also some housing issues that she um
51:55
was having
51:56
and she had gotten so many good
51:57
resources from the shelters
51:59
and from you know other outside
52:03
organizations
52:04
and by the time we were done
52:06
when I tell you she didn't
52:08
need me at all it was amazing so she was
52:11
talking and I mean talking like talking
52:12
your head off talking um
52:14
she had learned to drive I mean and she
52:17
was
52:18
raising at that point three boys on her
52:21
own um at the opposing party tried to give
52:24
her a
52:25
car and actually left it in the parking
52:26
lot uh
52:28
downstairs at our office and then we had
52:30
to inspect the car to find out if there
52:32
were trackers or anything on it
52:34
um it was just it was a lot he would pop
52:37
up at the office whenever he wanted to
52:39
um and he had to be alerted when he was
52:41
there um but we ended up
52:44
I mean getting through it and just to
52:45
see the change in
52:47
people from start to finish I think is
52:51
is amazing um
52:54
and when people come into all of our
52:57
services you know for all of our
52:58
services I think they're at their lowest
53:00
or close to their lowest and so it
53:03
really is
53:03
interesting to me to see how they change
53:07
so
53:07
drastically when you think that you
53:09
haven't done anything
53:11
you know you may say oh well I got a
53:12
A protective order that's you know that's
53:14
what I do every day
53:15
or I’ve you know filed this paperwork
53:17
for them that's what I do every day but
53:19
it's interesting to see how what you
53:22
have done and what you think is your
53:23
everyday life
53:24
changes there so much um
53:28
and I think that's you know amazing
53:31
when I hear stories about what
53:34
you know maybe like Stuart's unit or
53:37
you know
53:37
what people are doing with landlord
53:39
tenant and the eviction moratorium and
53:42
all that right now
53:43
like you think it's small um but to hear
53:45
somebody say
53:46
I got to stay in my house or my children
53:49
won't be homeless
53:50
or I feel like I can go outside again
53:52
because we have had people who
53:54
refuse to go outside of their homes
53:57
um but to I think hearing
54:00
them say things like that is amazing
54:04
because what you think you're doing is
54:05
maybe like small
54:06
but it really is a big change in
54:09
people's lives
54:12
and you probably know you you made those
54:14
boys lives’ better
54:17
yeah which actually is a metric I think
54:20
we use in our legal services world and
54:22
the family businesses
54:23
not just the client itself uh but that's
54:25
an amazing story
54:26
and make sure that pro bonos know that
54:28
I’m not all of your case is going to
54:29
be that complicated but
54:31
you might be and they are we got
54:32
something to give you as far as a
54:33
resource
54:34
but uh I mean a minor point like you
54:37
said but I think it matters
54:38
even in the case is minor even it’s muniment of
54:41
title like you mentioned or some other
54:42
minor things at this point the clients
54:44
for the most part haven't probably been
54:45
listened to
54:46
or heard you don't have anybody with
54:48
some kind of authority or title even
54:49
listen to them
54:50
so for our pro bonos giving you them
54:52
you're giving them your time
54:54
5 10 15 20 minutes sometimes means a lot
54:57
more you know than
54:58
when most people have given to them so
54:59
it's always a special feeling I think
55:01
that we have from our profession that we
55:03
can do for a person
55:05
and it's also you know we
55:08
have to be also careful like you know
55:09
the many different traumas you're
55:10
talking about there you know
55:12
Jessica and Meghan but like the one that
55:14
we saw
55:15
and we adapted to the last two years ago
55:17
which is just
55:18
hard to have to admit is that we applied
55:20
the disaster response model for natural
55:22
disasters
55:23
to the man-made ones and by that one i
55:25
mean uh well not necessarily this one
55:27
but the power outages
55:28
but the uh the gun uh the shooter
55:32
uh over an embossing in that incident
55:33
all the victims that happened in Walmart
55:35
we did actually a disaster resistance
55:37
recovery training on that
55:39
where instead of talking about FEMA in
55:40
the beginning you know for the life
55:42
cycle
55:42
of recovering from it we talked about
55:45
crime buttons compensation
55:46
just to help those 24 people bury their
55:48
relatives and then move on and be
55:50
careful and that
55:50
that way allow the person to go through
55:52
the drama and be able to move on to that
55:53
one legal problem and then move to the
55:55
next one
55:56
whether it be employment with because
55:58
they were at Walmart whether it be
55:59
the loss of their car because it was
56:01
impounded or something like that
56:02
uh but that's something that legal aid
56:04
is always kind of being aware of and
56:05
again
56:06
as a pro bono attorney uh when you have
56:08
this client and you see those issues
56:09
come back to us you know maybe there'll
56:11
be a way to kind of discuss those things
56:12
identify them
56:13
and move on so you don't have to be
56:15
dealing with many more things apart from
56:16
the legal problems
56:17
because we're not all social workers we
56:19
are licensed attorneys
56:21
and I think you made a very good point
56:23
Pablo we're probably not going to give
56:25
you the year-long case
56:27
um I know with FEMA Isaid during harvey
56:30
proof of homeownership was a
56:31
big issue
56:33
FEMA takes affidavit of heirships and if
56:35
you've never done one
56:36
if the person can get their witnesses
56:38
together fairly quickly
56:40
you're looking at maybe an hour or two's
56:43
work
56:44
and they can prove homeownership get the
56:46
assistance they need
56:47
stay in that home and then sometimes
56:50
what I would always do is to transfer
56:51
On death deed
56:53
that way when they wanted to pass on to
56:55
the next generation
56:56
that next-generation had clear title and
57:00
so you didn't run into the same problem
57:02
with the next disaster which I think in
57:04
texas now that we're having to deal with
57:06
winter storms where it's going to be
57:07
yearly
57:08
so just that little couple of hours
57:11
worked
57:12
helped a person stay in their home and
57:13
set up the next generation so they
57:15
wouldn't have to face the same problems
57:17
or go through the expense of probate so
57:20
a little bit sometimes a little bit of
57:22
your time makes a huge difference in
57:24
someone's life
57:28
and that's not that's all my soapbox
57:29
sorry all right no that's great so we've
57:31
got about two and a half minutes left
57:33
before we wind it down Meghan Jessica
57:34
anything else you want to add to to the
57:36
presentation
57:38
um yeah i just I loved what you said
57:41
Pablo is just sometimes people want to
57:43
be listened to
57:44
especially in our communities that have
57:46
been so marginalized
57:48
I find that if you don't interrupt them
57:51
and just let them talk they can talk for
57:53
30 minutes
57:54
and sometimes that's what they need like
57:57
I have an 88-year-old client and
57:59
sometimes she'll just call to talk and
58:02
if you just put them
58:03
in your, if you put yourself in their
58:06
shoes and not say I’m so busy
58:08
let me get them off the phone sometimes
58:10
just listen to them
58:11
they haven't had a lot of communication
58:13
with anyone for a while
58:15
they just want to talk that's okay you
58:17
know we all provide different services
58:19
and sometimes our service
58:21
is just to be empathetic to someone
58:24
else's situation and it doesn't always
58:26
involve a legal issue so I love that is
58:29
especially at someone in our jobs or if
58:31
you take a pro bono case
58:33
we are all so busy but sometimes we
58:36
forget the humanity in it and it's just
58:38
taking some time and listening to
58:40
someone
58:42
so yeah
58:46
100% like snapping here yeah
58:49
go ahead jess I was just gonna say to
58:52
just
58:53
quickly that I think that pro bono
58:56
attorneys and the volunteers have to
58:57
understand how they are
59:01
and how much we appreciate them within
59:03
our
59:04
different programs because there are
59:06
obviously um
59:07
more people in need than we have
59:09
available who can assist within our
59:10
offices
59:11
um and just have you know another
59:15
resource for people that we know need
59:17
help but maybe based on the situation we
59:19
may not be able to provide it although
59:21
we want to
59:22
it's amazing and it gives people
59:25
hope when we can say you know although
59:28
we might not be able to do it there are
59:30
people who are out there
59:31
who can and will you know point you in
59:33
that direction and send you that way
59:35
um so it gives them another bite at the
59:37
apple but it also gives them
59:39
you know gives our applicants a chance
59:41
to really get the help
59:43
they need um knowing that we are you
59:45
know sometimes our offices are at a
59:47
point where we can't do anything else
59:49
uh just based on the caseload and so we
59:51
really do appreciate
59:52
our pro bono attorneys and appreciate
59:54
the volunteers because they really are
59:56
helping us
59:57
uh you know move cases along and provide
59:59
the services to people that they need
60:04
great Jessica Meghan really great
60:07
uh topic here interesting I’m sure
60:10
people look at the title I wonder what
60:11
it's going to be about I wonder how many
60:12
things clicked and let me see what it's
60:13
all about I’m sure they found it as
60:14
interesting as we did because it's so
60:15
relevant across many fields here
60:17